Atheist group targets Muslims, Jews with ‘myth’ billboards in Arabic and Hebrew[views:23270][posts:104]____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 9:01am - dickhead666 ""] a friend raised a good point in a fb thread the other day that never gets enough play: - how many people who believe that they believe in a god (who answers prayers and looks after them etc.) actually behave as if they believe in god? in other words, on a day-to-day basis, in practice, how many people actually RELY on their faith in god to accomplish things? as in, "oh shit, i didn't study for this test... help me out god!" any observation of believers would soon show that when it comes down to it, in reality 99.999% of them actually end up relying on themselves to get shit done. cue the typical religious response of "no, it's him that gives us the power to do it ourselves etc."...... then why pray, dickhead? |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 10:06am - Alx_Casket ""] Prayer, when used as meditation and not mindless chanting, has significant positive physical and psychological effects on the one who is praying. Numerous studies have shown that. Studies have also shown that there is no effect when you pray for someone else's health. I hold the belief that religion is good for some, mainly for the above reasons. Everyone should be free to believe in what they want, just as long as it doesn't bother someone else. And if you believe in something different than your fellow man, expect and accept that your beliefs will be questioned. |
| ______________________________ [Mar 2,2012 10:31am - Yeti ""] actually to counter the end of your first point, i wish i had the article to link, there was a study done that if someone is gravely ill and they know they are being prayed for, they have a higher mortality rate. |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 10:34am - Alx_Casket ""] Yeti said:actually to counter the end of your first point, i wish i had the article to link, there was a study done that if someone is gravely ill and they know they are being prayed for, they have a higher mortality rate. Null effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer#Efficacy_of_prayer_healing |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 10:37am - Alx_Casket ""] That's not a counter to the end of my first point, I never said that someone who knows that they're being prayed for that they has a better outcome. |
| ______________________________ [Mar 2,2012 10:38am - Yeti ""] ORLY "Another 2006 study suggested that prayer actually had a significant negative effect on the recovery of cardiac bypass patients, resulting in more frequent deaths and slower recovery time for those patient who received prayers." |
| ______________________________ [Mar 2,2012 10:39am - Yeti ""] Alx_Casket said:That's not a counter to the end of my first point, I never said that someone who knows that they're being prayed for that they has a better outcome. that's why it's a counter argument, because you stated that it had no effect. |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 10:48am - Alx_Casket ""] my scenario: you pray for someone who doesn't know you're praying for them yours: "John, the entire church is praying every night for you to get better! Hope Jesus doesn't let us down!" |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 10:56am - Josh_Martin ""] Yeti said:your stance is what Bill Maher has dubbed "apatheist". you don't care either way whether there is a god. Heh, I like that. That's me right there. Agnostic = chickenshit atheist |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 11:39am - arilliusbm ""] The word "pray" is subjective. I am not religious per se and in the past I have dabbled in the occult. There is NO QUESTION that meditation and faith (subjective) is good for a person. I put faith in tangible things (myself, family, friends, nature) rather than a supposed omnipotent being floating in the sky. I'm a firm believer in spirituality but am anti-organized religion. Meditation takes me to places where I would otherwise never go to. It's what you do in your mind that counts. We know little about the power of our mind. Also, ALIENS. |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 12:03pm - Alx_Casket ""] I agree with aril. [img] |
| _________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 12:05pm - RustyPS ""] Alx_Casket said:I agree with aril. [img] You do have to support your better half, of course. |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 12:06pm - Alx_Casket ""] When I'm in a car, he takes the wheel! [img] |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 12:25pm - dickhead666 ""] Spirituality is a good thing, even if just for personal health (meditation etc.). Absolutely agree. I was talking about when faith-heads pray for an end to a drought or for little Timmy's cancer to stop spreading; no matter how much they might claim that god is doing something, how many of them actually behave as if the prayer is very likely to do something? You'd think these faith-heads would've noticed by now that their day-to-day behavior unwittingly resembles that of someone who acknowledges that the amount of positive outcomes don't correlate with the amount of prayer. |
| ________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 12:28pm - xmikex ""] [img] GOD SAID TO NOAH, THERE'S GONNA BE A FLOODY FLOODY... |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 1:14pm - Yeti ""] Alx_Casket said:my scenario: you pray for someone who doesn't know you're praying for them yours: "John, the entire church is praying every night for you to get better! Hope Jesus doesn't let us down!" fair enough. in that case then yes prayer would do nothing, aside from maybe help the one praying to cope with what they are praying about. see to me, the fundamental difference between prayer and meditation, despite the benefits of both, is that prayer is an attempted communication to a higher being, whereas meditation is an attempted communication to oneself. prayer and meditation may have many similarities, but i think that religious prayer is selling oneself short. you're never going to get an answer through prayer, but you can find a whole new sense of self through meditation. then again, i think that if someone really wants to journey to the center of self, just do mushrooms. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 1:19pm - arilliusbm ""] LET US DO THEM |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 1:20pm - Yeti ""] arilliusbm said:US AND THEM |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 1:20pm - arilliusbm ""] NOT DUBSTEP |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 1:22pm - Yeti ""] USANDTHEMSTEP |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 1:24pm - arilliusbm ""] I WANT TO LIST YOU ALL |
| ___________________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 1:35pm - Acausal Putnamist ""] Acausal demons > atheism |
| __________________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 1:50pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] Josh_Martin said: Yeti said:your stance is what Bill Maher has dubbed "apatheist". you don't care either way whether there is a god. Heh, I like that. That's me right there. Agnostic = chickenshit atheist Put me down for that one then. I definitely share Maher's point of view on religion... and weed. Not so much on mostly everything else. |
| __________________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 1:52pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] only praying to win championship sports games is real |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 2:44pm - ark ""] DestroyYouAlot said: Burnsy said: Your position seems to be one that says agnosticism is a branch of atheism but for me, it's the difference between yes, no and maybe. Ok, for you it can be different, but from an objective standpoint, that actually is the case. It's not so much "my position" as "the actual literal definition of the word". Agnostic basically means "I am an atheist, but prefer not to make waves by proclaiming myself such." Atheists range from those who will either not acknowledge that deity(ies) exist but not necessarily deny their existence (implicit), or claim the statement "a deity does not exist" (explicit). The whole spectrum of atheists implicitly or explicitly deny the supernatural/spiritual existence. Agnostics claim that the existence of deities is unknowable and unquantifiable by any standard. This is the only claim that the agnostic makes. The agnostic doesn't deny spirituality, or question the existence of deities, but rather questions the one making the claim for their existence or nonexistence. There is a difference, atheists claim nonexistence, but agnostics claim unknowable. Atheists and theists both claim to know, and the agnostic says to both: "prove it." Agnostics believe that human perception and reasoning will always fail to verify either position. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 2:48pm - ark ""] And to be clear or more confusing, there can be "agnostic theists" and "agnostic atheists". You can still believe in the existence of a deity while claiming the extent of it's existence is ultimately unknowable. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 2:54pm - ark ""] and i especially like this one: Ignosticism The view that a coherent definition of a deity must be put forward before the question of the existence of a deity can be meaningfully discussed. If the chosen definition is not coherent, the ignostic holds the noncognitivist view that the existence of a deity is meaningless or empirically untestable.[17] A.J. Ayer, Theodore Drange, and other philosophers see both atheism and agnosticism as incompatible with ignosticism on the grounds that atheism and agnosticism accept "a deity exists" as a meaningful proposition which can be argued for or against. |
| _______________________________ [Mar 2,2012 3:00pm - Burnsy ""] Well said, Ark. Never heard of ignosticism. I can dig that. Or there's always Blaise Pascal. He gave up his life as a mathematician for a monastic life. His reasoning? If there is no God or afterlife, there is no harm in living a religious life. If there IS a God and afterlife and you don't act in accordance with the way that deity wishes people to life, you're shit out of luck and jolly well fucked lol. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 3:27pm - Yeti ""] Pascal's Wager is one of the worst arguments for acceptance of religion. ignosticism is interesting, however the coherent definition of the deity in question (Jehovah) is established by the church. many people have different ideas on what constitutes God, however at the core it is omnipotent and omniscient, unanimously. despite it's untestability, it can still be debated since the burden of proof lies on the believer. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 3:29pm - Yeti ""] essentially it's a futile debate due to the untestability, but a believer is so confident in the existence, and the definition of it's omniscience, that it's fun to corner them. |
| _______________________________ [Mar 2,2012 3:40pm - Burnsy ""] Yeti said:Pascal's Wager is one of the worst arguments for acceptance of religion. No it isn't. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 3:42pm - Yeti ""] it's like playing the lottery. "you can't get saved if you don't play". it's too easy. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 3:49pm - Yeti ""] bennyhillifier bennyhillifier |
| _______________________________ [Mar 2,2012 3:50pm - Burnsy ""] Christians generally believe that even nonbelievers can be saved if they follow the "golden rule." Regarding the lottery argument... it's true. I'm not saying I'm religious, because I'm most definitely not but I think it's actually one of the BEST arguments for religion in a sea of terrible arguments for religion haha. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 3:55pm - Yeti ""] fair enough, that's the New Testament God, who pardons everyone except blasphemers. at least the Old Testament God had balls. |
| _______________________________ [Mar 2,2012 3:58pm - s nli ""] there is no one more confused about their religion or sexuality than yeti. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:00pm - Alx_Casket ""] Yeti said:fair enough, that's the New Testament God, who pardons everyone except blasphemers. at least the Old Testament God had balls. I thought you read the old testament? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:03pm - Yeti ""] no i'm still in the process. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:03pm - ark ""] His argument that "empiricism isn't enough to prove axioms such as X = X, therefore the intuition that provides our certainty that it does is a gift from God" is the same as O'Reilly's "can't explain that" argument. Pascal was an agnostic theist by the way =D |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:04pm - Yeti ""] of determining my sexuality. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:06pm - Yeti ""] and that was a statement made in jest, it seems that God forgives everything nowadays. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:07pm - Yeti ""] except confused sexuality. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:08pm - Alx_Casket ""] Cher is a gnostic troll. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:10pm - arilliusbm ""] Lick Crazy Dan and dryhump my leg about it, you atheist7 |
| _______________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:17pm - Burnsy ""] Yeah it's funny how the image of god morphs with society. How can perfection change? |
| _______________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:19pm - Burnsy ""] ark said:is the same as O'Reilly's "can't explain that" argument. Pascal was an agnostic theist by the Haha I haven't read that he said that. Makes sense that he was an agnostic theist. |
| __________________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:20pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] ITT: [img] |
| _______________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:21pm - Burnsy ""] Yeti said:fair enough, that's the New Testament God, who pardons everyone except blasphemers. at least the Old Testament God had balls. Haha yup. I went to Catholic school for 12 years, man so I'm way more well versed in this stuff than I'd ever want to be. Old Testament God was less balls and more misfit child with a bad temper though. |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:23pm - Josh_Martin ""] I can explain that picture. Dorky looking guy is walking home from a wedding. UPS truck crashes, all the shit falls out of the back. He's gay so he grabs a sewing machine while the cops have their backs turned. Simple |
| _____________________________ [Mar 2,2012 4:25pm - ark ""] new testament/confucian/captain picard high moral ground always takes more balls. |