One Step Closer to a Police State[views:9786][posts:66]______________________________________ [May 19,2006 11:32am - HailTheLeaf ""] http://www.alternet.org/story/36428/ "President Bush's plan to deploy 6,000 National Guard troops to the Mexican border, widely seen as a political gambit, is coming under fire from both left and right. It's likely that the move is a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, a law established after the Civil War that prohibits the use of U.S. troops for domestic law enforcement. Passed in 1878 to prohibit federal troops from running elections in the former confederate states, it is considered a bulwark against the development of a police state. A central issue of Bush's plan is that the troops would be under federal authority. One of the exceptions built into the Posse Comitatus Act is that troops may be deployed to support law enforcement agencies, but with the exception of insurrections and riots, nuclear attack or interdiction of drug smuggling (when working directly with law enforcement agencies), they must be under the authority of a state governor." super...they can get rid of the Posse Comitatus Act and start using the military to control civilians...woo hoo! Are we a dictatorship yet? |
| _________________________________________ [May 19,2006 11:44am - Josh_hates_you ""] aren't there like trees in your town to go hug or something? |
| _____________________________________________ [May 19,2006 11:47am - Man_of_the_Century ""] HailTheLeaf said:super...they can get rid of the Posse Comitatus Act and start using the military to control civilians...woo hoo! Are we a dictatorship yet? Nope, and you are retarded. That act says that the military (except in the special conditions that it lists) cannot be used against AMERICIAN CIVILIANS. The troops will not be there to patrol american civilians, they are there to regulate illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants are not citizens of this country, so how does that act apply to them? |
| _____________________________________________ [May 19,2006 11:50am - Man_of_the_Century ""] Not to mention that Bush even said that the militaary will be there to assist the border patrol, which is OK under that act. |
| ______________________________________ [May 19,2006 12:06pm - HailTheLeaf ""] Man_of_the_Century said:HailTheLeaf said:super...they can get rid of the Posse Comitatus Act and start using the military to control civilians...woo hoo! Are we a dictatorship yet? Nope, and you are retarded. That act says that the military (except in the special conditions that it lists) cannot be used against AMERICIAN CIVILIANS. The troops will not be there to patrol american civilians, they are there to regulate illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants are not citizens of this country, so how does that act apply to them? Totally missing the point as usual, the act states that the troops have to be under state authority, not federal, way to read. oh, I heard the NSA can't wiretap American civillians making domestic calls either, how is that working out? |
| ____________________________________ [May 19,2006 12:17pm - Jugulator ""] I like this move.Id say the troops shoot any fucking wetback who trys to cross the border.We have to many damn minorities in this country already.Its time us white people took it back!!! If it aint white It aint RIGHT |
| ________________________________________ [May 19,2006 12:24pm - hungtableed ""] HailTheLeaf said: super...they can get rid of the Posse Comitatus Act and start using the military to control civilians...woo hoo! Are we a dictatorship yet? Please, move to canada. Sooner or later I seriously hope that it is realized that your kind wore out their welcome back in 1969. I'm sick of fucking anti-American globalist scum. [img] [img] |
| ______________________________________ [May 19,2006 12:34pm - HailTheLeaf ""] wow, it's a good thing you take all those rights that people fought for the in 60's for granted. Why don't you move? you're part of the problem |
| _________________________________________ [May 19,2006 12:36pm - Josh_hates_you ""] and by posting useless crap on rttp you're part of the solution right? get over yourself. |
| ______________________________________ [May 19,2006 12:42pm - HailTheLeaf ""] It's called news, not that everyone here would care to actually know what's going on in their government, country, or the rest of the world, some of you are obviously content to be ignorant. Why you get your panties in a bunch about the spread of information and start insulting me for posting things you should know if you live here, is beyond me. |
| ________________________________________ [May 19,2006 12:43pm - hungtableed ""] ?!?! part of the probelm? the problem is that assholes are jumping our boarder as if it doesn't exist, often times poping out a kid as soon as they pass thus alowing them to live here so that can leach off all of the social benefits you'd probably give your left tit to keep as an on going policy. The fact is, is that you support illegals overrunning our country because you hate our country, and you don't want our military to have any part in it, because you, like the degenerates of the 1960s, hate our military. For some foreign reason you think that these assholes should be able to come here like this regardless of all the laws and statutes that must be followed to attain citizenship. |
| ______________________________________ [May 19,2006 12:59pm - HailTheLeaf ""] yes, clearly you have a firm grasp of my political views...that was my plan all along..to have Mexicans invade and overrun the country...what's the rest of the plan? How about we make Mexico and the rest of the world a better place to exsist in so people won't be forced to flee over the border to support their families? My relatives illegally invaded this country when they got off the Mayflower, so I guess we should all fucking leave, unless of course you're native and your relatives came over 30,000-40,000 years ago. I love how you choose to attack the person posting the news instead of offering a different prospective or view, or opinion on the topic, it's like talking to 3rd graders. If you don't want to know what's going on in the politics if this country, then why bother readiing the post at all? |
| ______________________________ [May 19,2006 1:02pm - BMR ""] How strange, my boy HTB actually happens to be Native American, Passimuacady I think it is right? |
| ______________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:07pm - hungtableed ""] HailTheLeaf said: How about we make Mexico and the rest of the wrold a better place to exsist in so eople won't be forced to flee over the border to support their families? Exactly my point. Internationalist scum. It's not our problem, or obligation, to feed the world's hungriest, to shelter the world's homeless, and to cure the world's sick. It's not out obligation to assure that their governments are not corrupt and are not oppressing their people into poverty, nor is it our responcibilty to take them in if they are living in they are unsatisfied with their leadership My relatives illegally invaded this country when they got off the Mayflower, so I guess we should all fucking leave, unless of course you're native and your relatives came over 30,000-40,000 years ago. actually, I am part native, although it is controversial for me to just say so because Native Americans are the only ethnicity that has to prove their blood quantum like dogs in order have any legitimiate claim as to a Native heratige. |
| ______________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:09pm - hungtableed ""] BMR said:How strange, my boy HTB actually happens to be Native American, Passimuacady I think it is right? Actually, Passamaquoddy, now give me my fucking reparations! [img] |
| ____________________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:16pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] HailTheLeaf said:Man_of_the_Century said:Totally missing the point as usual, the act states that the troops have to be under state authority, not federal, way to read. oh, I heard the NSA can't wiretap American civillians making domestic calls either, how is that working out? From CNN.com ( http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/18/bush.border/index.html ) "The National Guard troops will come from units in potentially every state, and will be under the command of the governors of the four southern border states of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas." "Bush has promised the governors -- who can veto the use of their troops -- the federal government would repay them for their costs." Under the comand of the governors? Man Bush is a scum bag for voilating the Posse Comitatus Act and making... Wait a sec... "and will be under the command of the governors of the four southern border states of California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas"? Somebody didn't do thier homework... |
| _____________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:17pm - HailTheLeaf ""] hungtableed said:HailTheLeaf said: How about we make Mexico and the rest of the wrold a better place to exsist in so eople won't be forced to flee over the border to support their families? Exactly my point. Internationalist scum. It's not our problem, or obligation, to feed the world's hungriest, to shelter the world's homeless, and to cure the world's sick. It's not out obligation to assure that their governments are not corrupt and are not oppressing their people into poverty, nor is it our responcibilty to take them in if they are living in they are unsatisfied with their leadership I thought it was our problem? Aren't we being overrun by illegals? or is that not a problem now? It sure as hell wasn't our responsibliltiy to "bring freedom and democracy" to Iraq, I'm pretty sure if we spent all that money taking care of everyone in need it would've worked out alot better for everyone, but hey, spending that money to oppress people instead has always made the world a better place right? |
| __________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:21pm - F.A.C.E. ""] WOW! you people are fucking amazing! Someone tries to start an adult political conversation, and is trying to share points of view, and all you assholes ever do is attack her personally. Calling her retarded, and making hippie jokes. It's quite blatant that you people don't have the brain capacity to keep up with her when it comes to this subject. SHARE YOU POINT OF VIEW!!!!! Don't rag on her because her's isn't what you think it should be. Grow the fuck up. |
| ____________________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:22pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] F.A.C.E. said:WOW! you people are fucking amazing! Someone tries to start an adult political conversation, and is trying to share points of view, and all you assholes ever do is attack her personally. Calling her retarded, and making hippie jokes. It's quite blatant that you people don't have the brain capacity to keep up with her when it comes to this subject. SHARE YOU POINT OF VIEW!!!!! Don't rag on her because her's isn't what you think it should be. Grow the fuck up. See my last post, she obiously has no clue what she's talking about and only blindly follows everything she reads off that anti-government website. |
| __________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:33pm - F.A.C.E. ""] So she's right, you don't get the point. She's just trying to talk politics. All she ever gets in return is insults, and personal attacks. No one ever actually has a straight foward political debate with her. It's all insults and bullshit. Unfortunately,and I've told her this, she doesn't know how to just ignore the fuck-heads, and continues to argue with them. I can't stand politics, doesn't mean I don't pay attention to what's going on, and it doesn't mean that I don't have my own point of view, I'm just not gonna deal with immature insult throwing with people who apparently are just here to challenge people and piss them off as much as possible. |
| __________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:36pm - F.A.C.E. ""] ...and just for the record: my last post isn't directed to those of you who are actually trying to talk politics with her. It's obvious who it's directed at. |
| __________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:38pm - F.A.C.E. ""] so if you repost some stupid fucking insult at me, then MY point has been made. |
| ______________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:40pm - hungtableed ""] F.A.C.E. said: I'm just not gonna deal with immature insult throwing with people who apparently are just here to challenge people and piss them off as much as possible. welcome to the internet |
| _____________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:41pm - HailTheLeaf ""] Defense officials said they have been asked to map out what military resources could be made available if needed — including options for using the National Guard under either state or federal control. The strategy would also explore the legal guidelines for use of the military on domestic soil, the officials said. In the aftermath of the hurricane, Bush asked Pentagon officials to review ways to give the military a bigger role in responding to major disasters. But officials are somewhat reluctant to make major changes, leery of the image of armed military troops patrolling U.S. cities. Under the Civil War-era Posse Comitatus Act, federal troops are prohibited from performing law enforcement actions, such as making arrests, seizing property or searching people. In extreme cases, however, the president can invoke the Insurrection Act, also from the Civil War, which allows him to use active-duty or National Guard troops for law enforcement It is a bedrock principle of American politics that the military does not get involved in domestic policing under any but the gravest of conditions. Peacetime standing armies were anathema until necessitated by the enduring Cold War. We even have a provision in the Bill of Rights precluding quartering of troops in private homes. This reluctance to politicize the military stems from the abuses seen in Europe and domestically during the Colonial era and has been reinforced time and again by observation of the developing world, where professional militaries are the only trusted institution and not infrequently assume the reins of power. Short of an armed invasion from Mexico, it is simply bizarre to consider militarizing the border. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/...military_may_augment_border_patrol/ Gov. Bill Richardson (D) of New Mexico said he was concerned that the White House did not consult with governors in the weeks leading up to his Monday announcement. "A phone call three hours before delivering a speech is not the same as cooperation and consultation," Richardson said Monday in a statement. |
| _______________________________ [May 19,2006 1:42pm - hoser ""] Exactly. HTL is nothing more than a cut and paste douche who spends too much time reading Left Wing propaganda. What this country needs is to put HTL, Susan Sarandon, Tim Roberts, and Martin Sheen in a big rocket and shoot them into the sun.....problem solved. She really doesn't get it. She's faux intelligent, with little to no opinion that she hasn't gotten from some Lefty website. She's a hippy with a bad attitude from a Lefty state....big surprise. Thank God that we have people in 49 other states that don't think this way. If it were up to the extreme Lefties like the aforementioned personalities....we'd be a Fascist state. That's just MY take on all of this....and it's not based on nuthin' but my own ignorance and hard headedness.....so anyhow..... |
| ____________________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:44pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] I do get the point, she wants to have a mature, adult conversation. The problem is that she has about as much knowlege about the government as a 6th grader. No, I'm not saying that to be mean, its true. Tell ya what, I'll be a big man and strike all of my previous comments from the record. Here, I'll start over: Bush is not breaking any laws with this troop deployment. In his public addresses, he stated that all troops being deployed to the Mexican border will be under the control of the governer for the corresponding state. Therefore, is not in voilation of Posse Comitatus Act. HTL, before you post things you want to have a conversation over, you should do some research on your own and not blindly follow what you read on a anti-government website. Most of it is crap. |
| _____________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:49pm - HailTheLeaf ""] Please don't tell me you believe what Bush states in his public addresses...the govenors were not even consulted with. |
| _______________________________ [May 19,2006 1:52pm - hoser ""] HTL....you are downright PARANOID.....time to lay off the weed. |
| __________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:54pm - pam nli ""] This is not a political message board. Please stop posting this shit if you don't want to hear shit for it. When you volunteer, donate, work, and march...I will give a shit what you say about politics. Until then...SHHH! |
| ____________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:55pm - RichHorror ""] Come see IWEIPH soon on the Rock Against Freedom Tour! |
| ________________________________________________ [May 19,2006 1:55pm - whiskey_weed_and_women ""] hoser said:HTL....you are downright PARANOID.....time to lay off the weed. hey hey hey, she might be paranoid but please refrain from bringing the weed into this. :point: |
| ________________________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:00pm - whiskey_weed_and_women ""] [img] leave me alone, im readin' super fudge |
| __________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:07pm - F.A.C.E. ""] HAH! Superfudge! wait till you get to the part when....oh never mind. I don't want to spoil it for ya! |
| _____________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:10pm - sacreligion ""] i don't see what the issue of doing this is...using the national guard to guard the nation(not from an attack of course...but from ILLEGAL immigration...ILLEGAL) . . . . |
| ______________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:10pm - hungtableed ""] whiskey_weed_and_women said:hoser said:HTL....you are downright PARANOID.....time to lay off the weed. hey hey hey, she might be paranoid but please refrain from bringing the weed into this. :point: hahahahahaha |
| _____________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:17pm - HailTheLeaf ""] pam nli said:This is not a political message board. Please stop posting this shit if you don't want to hear shit for it. When you volunteer, donate, work, and march...I will give a shit what you say about politics. Until then...SHHH! If you don't want to read news/political threads then don't, no one is forcing you to, and I haven't marched, but I'm covered on everything else, so yeah... |
| __________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:19pm - pam nli ""] Not what I've heard! |
| ___________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:29pm - dreadkill ""] whiskey_weed_and_women said:[img] leave me alone, im readin' super fudge ha! |
| _______________________________ [May 19,2006 2:33pm - hoser ""] Why don't you post this shit on your Lefty websites? Why do you do it here? |
| _____________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:40pm - defecation ""] HailTheLeaf said:hungtableed said:HailTheLeaf said: How about we make Mexico and the rest of the wrold a better place to exsist in so eople won't be forced to flee over the border to support their families? Why don't you actually do something about this problem (since you're so passionate about making the world a better place) instead of scolding the rest of us who don't give a shit about poor Mexicans? You're the one who cares - do something! That's like constantly bitching about the poverty in Boston, but not donating a sandwich when a bum on the street tells you that he's hungry... :pukeface: |
| __________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:45pm - pam nli ""] Stopping Mexican poverty involves getting their shitty, asshole, dictator leaders out of office (there's a liberal leaning guy running now...they don't elect him, too bad for them) and stopping the free trade laws the US placed allowing US corporations to export to Mexico and abuse their cheap wages without sharing any profit. There's your mission, get to work. Do I think what we've done to Mexico and other poor nations is right? No. Do I mind if immigrants come here and work shitty jobs? Nope! Do I want to read about this on a music message board? Nope! |
| ____________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:49pm - RichHorror ""] pam nli said:Do I want to read about this on a music message board? Nope! This website needs more Loverboy. |
| __________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:50pm - pam nli ""] What site doesn't need more Loverboy??? |
| ____________________________________ [May 19,2006 2:52pm - RichHorror ""] My cock needs more Loverboy. |
| ___________________________________ [May 19,2006 3:44pm - dreadkill ""] i'll be right over! |
| ____________________________________ [May 19,2006 3:45pm - RichHorror ""] You have neiter a headband or a jewfro with receding hairline. |
| ___________________________________ [May 19,2006 3:45pm - dreadkill ""] i do too have a headband. i only wear it on sundays |
| ____________________________________ [May 19,2006 3:46pm - RichHorror ""] I wear my sunglesses at night. |
| ___________________________________ [May 19,2006 4:02pm - dreadkill ""] i wear mine in bed |
| ____________________________________ [May 19,2006 4:06pm - PatMeebles ""] The national guard is supposed to do survelliance, while the border patrol will handle all the actual law enforcement stuff. Besides, the national guard is not the army. The national guard is the group that you call specifically for use within the country. |
| ______________________________________ [May 19,2006 4:07pm - the_reverend ""] then why are they all over in iraq fighting? |
| __________________________________ [May 19,2006 4:12pm - pam nli ""] the_reverend said:then why are they all over in iraq fighting? ba-zinnng! |
| _________________________________ [May 19,2006 4:17pm - pisscup ""] the_reverend said:then why are they all over in iraq fighting? Because the liberal media and the hippies won't let us nuke the mexicans. |
| _________________________________________ [May 19,2006 5:07pm - CTborderpatrol ""] i support a troop deployment on the border. its about time bush started making a small iota of sense |
| _____________________________________________ [May 19,2006 5:07pm - DrinkHardThrashHard ""] It's never too late to build a time machine. |
| _________________________________________ [May 19,2006 5:07pm - CTborderpatrol ""] p.s. since when do us northerners give a fuck about what goes on in texas? |
| _________________________________ [May 19,2006 5:15pm - soloman ""] HailTheLeaf said: super...they can get rid of the Posse Comitatus Act and start using the military to control civilians...woo hoo! Are we a dictatorship yet? Civilians? No. They are using military to control illegal immigrants, not civillians. What is it that you don't understand here? If you want to criticize the conservative take on illegal immigration, that's one thing. But this "police state" talk is garbage. |
| _________________________________ [May 19,2006 5:25pm - pisscup ""] DrinkHardThrashHard said:It's never too late to build a time machine. [img] |
| ______________________________________________ [May 19,2006 7:06pm - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] If we want to deal with the illegals problem we need to completely open the borders with Mexico and Canada. If the borders were completely open Mexicans would be able to come to the United States for better wages legally, resulting in labor shortfalls in Mexico that would force Mexican businesses and American corporations operating in Mexico to offer higher wages and standards of living to entice workers back to Mexico. And I know someone will come back with "BIG DEAL, WHO GIVES A FUCK IF MEXICO'S A SHITHOLE!?" Despite the fact that every American directly benefits from the exploitative version of "free trade" under NAFTA that allows goods to be made in Mexican maquiladoras and exported to the US tax free. And some of Mexico's economic hardship falls squarely on the United States, specifically our agriculture subsidies for crops such as the Mexican staple corn which have driven Mexican farmers out of business and forced a number of middle-class Mexicans who pre-NAFTA were content with living in Mexico and their employment to persue illegal immigration to the US. Too many Americans act like toddlers, believing that their country can never be wrong and all the world's problems could not possibly be their fault. On the other side you have people equally with their heads up their asses thinking that EVERYTHING this country does is inherently evil and must be stopped. Fuck that, I'm wicked far to the left on a lot of things but I'm all for globalization and free trade if it's implemented in a way that gives everyone the same rights rather than giving corporations more rights than the employees. |
| ________________________________________ [May 19,2006 8:05pm - DomesticTerror ""] I have no problem with the national guard being used domestically, that's what they're there for. Also, i can't wait for the icecaps to melt and Mexico starts shooting us as we scramble over the border. we'll be screwed, but the irony is worth it. *edit sp |
| _________________________________________ [May 19,2006 10:57pm - ArrowHead nli ""] HTL, you're a fucktard. I've told you this before. The national guard is already out on our borders. They already work under local governments. My girlfriend's sister was in florida busting dope dealers years ago in these same kind of circumstance. If this kind of deployment really worries you about the onset of a police state, the it bit you in the ass without you even seeing it dozens of years ago. The radical interweb bullshit you read takes some small part of government or politics that the average reader knows little of, and highlights it in some sensational manner. If you take the time to brush up, these are usually systems and practices that have been in place for generations. If you like it here, shut the fuck up, work hard, try to contribute to your society, and don't raise stupid babies. Other than that, you've got more freedom than you'll ever know what to do with. Stop whining. God bless me, for even allowing you in my country. |
| ________________________________________ [May 19,2006 11:35pm - holy nothing ""] there is no god. you must have a brain tumor |
| _________________________________________________________ [May 20,2006 12:58am - The REAL Real Joe Christianni ""] You fucken fags, the only government I listen to is the fucken Dictatorship of Phil Anselmo (R.I.P. DIME) WALK ON HOME BOY |
| ____________________________________ [May 20,2006 4:33am - PatMeebles ""] the_reverend said:then why are they all over in iraq fighting? They can be called up to do other stuff, but the national guard was created because of laws preventing the federal (if that's what you call it) military from being deployed to do civilian operations in America. And when everyone was scared about the hurricanes hitting the south, people neglected to mention that the National Guard is at 60% capacity at home. That's not a shortage. Troop levels in Iraq haven't increased, so I can only assume that's still roughly the same number now. |
| ___________________________________ [May 20,2006 11:05am - pam nli ""] holy nothing said:there is no god. you must have a brain tumor hahahah |
| __________________________________________ [May 21,2006 12:09pm - CTborderpatrol ""] The REAL Real Joe Christianni said:You fucken fags, the only government I listen to is the fucken Dictatorship of Phil Anselmo (R.I.P. DIME) WALK ON HOME BOY that is the gayest thing i ever heard |
| ___________________________________________ [May 21,2006 12:31pm - dwellingsickness ""] well, look who it came from |