Grind[views:13770][posts:84]______________________________________________ [Oct 18,2004 11:39pm - MarkFuckingRichards ""] haha, there ya go |
| _______________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 2:01am - tomx at work ""] daughters IS grind, not like those shit bands like fuck the facts, ion dissonance, and pig destroyer. daughters redefined what heavy music is and changed the face of grind forever...now all these bands like lymphatic phlegm and negligent collateral collapse are just biting theior sound. earth crisis is another great grind band too |
| _________________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 2:12am - SacreligionNLI ""] we want to try to start a circle pit for our song wages of sin...there's a buildup in it that would be perfect to start one as long as there were enough willing people to do it |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 2:13am - sacreligion ""] whoops...wrong thread...i'll go ahead and post that in the correct one most grind sucks ass. very few bands i've seen can do it and make it sound good and not like untalented jargonic cacaphony im going to use the word jargonic everywhere i go |
| _________________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 2:15am - attendmyrequiem ""] I think this has been said a million times. let's bring it up some more. let's also bring up hardcore vs metal let's also discuss dancing at shows how about...we don't. |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 2:16am - sacreligion ""] bownt |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 9:01am - Josh_Martin ""] Top 5 grind albums: Repulsion-Horrified Napalm Death-From Enslavement to Obliteration Brutal Truth-Extreme Conditions Demand Extreme Responses 324-Customized Circle Fear of God-As Statues Fell If a band sounds ridiculous being lumped in with any of the above, its not a fucking grindcore band. |
| _________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 9:01am - dogshit ""] genres used to be for classifying bands. now they're just basis for stupid retards to argue. everywhere i go. this isn't grind; that's not grindcore, this is. everyone has got to stop. if a band says they belong in the genre don't fight it; just let it be. i guess if some stupid retard says otherwise you might as well argue about it, right? WRONG!! if you don't value someones opinion, which is why you disagree, just forget about it. |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 9:11am - Josh_Martin ""] dogshit said: i guess if some stupid retard says otherwise you might as well argue about it, right? Isn't that what the internet is for? |
| __________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 9:27am - Mike_FOD ""] the_taste_of_cigarettes said:Grindcore - an amalgamate of punk, hardcore, and metal; the name is referential to the latter two styles. Aspects of each style are usually represented over the span of shorter-than-the-pop-standard 2minute songs. Originally started as a protest music, grind songs are short, fast, and with many transitions in order to counteract "composed" and longer forms of song writing. Common Grindcore characteristics include -- though are not limited to -- the following: -numerous, and sometimes wild. changes -short songs -definitive "blast" beat, involving snare hits on nearly every beat of a measure, often 16th or 32nd notes. -fast speed likened to "grinding", somewhat comparable to the "axe" (or guitar) being "ground" (tremolo picked) with a plectrum. -political, satirical, or volatile lyrics -provocative song titles, artwork, and messages Early acts from the mid 80's to earlier 90's that helped set the stage for Grind include: DRI Deep Wound Siege Anal Cunt Disrupt check this page for more interesting stuff: http://www.geocities.com/repulsion_band/agrindhistory.html Who would ever consider DRI to be grind? They were crossover, which meant a thrash/hxc hybrid. As for Siege...they were more hxc and slightly proto-grind. Not all grind has to be political either. Instead of that whole big description, you could sum up grind like this.... De-tuned punk riffs, blasting, scream/growl trade offs, and should always be blitz (very short songs). Listen to Discordance Axis, 324, Nyctophobic, Mule Skinner, Dahmer and Terrorizer for real grind. Another thing... fuck all nu hxc kids who think that by screaming nonsense into a mic, and making a stupid DEP rip off noise with the guitar, that their band is grind. I hope you fall into a lake of acid. |
| _________________________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 9:47am - the_taste_of_cigarettes ""] Mike_FOD said:Who would ever consider DRI to be grind? They were crossover, which meant a thrash/hxc hybrid. As for Siege...they were more hxc and slightly proto-grind. Not all grind has to be political either. Instead of that whole big description, you could sum up grind like this.... De-tuned punk riffs, blasting, scream/growl trade offs, and should always be blitz (very short songs). Listen to Discordance Axis, 324, Nyctophobic, Mule Skinner, Dahmer and Terrorizer for real grind. Another thing... fuck all nu hxc kids who think that by screaming nonsense into a mic, and making a stupid DEP rip off noise with the guitar, that their band is grind. I hope you fall into a lake of acid. That's the point of the thread, to clear up situations like this one. 1) You name some later acts in order to support who started the genre. The problem is, you can't be part of a later generation of the genre and be considered an originator / developer so much. True, Terrorizer helped start it, but DA? as much as I like them, that's kinda ridiculous to say they helped start grind. 2) De-Tuned punk riffs, blasting, scream/growl trade offs? That's horrible inaccurate. Many grind bands don't detune at ALL, there's more than just blasting involved (look at EVERY early grind band...), and not all grind bands trade screams/and growls. Although you can find those things IN grind, those do not DEFINE grind. Those are in MANY other styles of music. 3) DRI is recognized as being influential in the development of the grind platform, as is Anal Cunt. Napalm Death DEFINITELY would be in there, too. Much like Early Rock N Roll only bears a moderate resemblance to today's "rock n roll", same goes for early grind development. They didn't have Pig Destroyer to listen to back then, so it didn't sound like Pig Destroyer -- it sounded like "thrash/hxc hybrid". This paved the way for more hybridized musics. |
| _________________________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 9:48am - the_taste_of_cigarettes ""] It's not that genre matters -- who the fuck cares what genre something is? -- it is to help people understand our beautiful grind heritage. |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 9:51am - Josh_Martin ""] If D.R.I. broke up after the first record they'd probably be considered the fathers of grindcore today. If Mick Harris hadn't cited Siege as a huge influence no one would even remember them. There was faster bands before them. |
| ___________________________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 6:40pm - attendmyrequiem @ school ""] i doubt mike listed DA as a grind originator as much as he did for their innovative style they created with grind. who really played grind like that before DA? |
| __________________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 7:16pm - BestialOnslaught ""] ArrowHead said:Metalcore is metal influenced hardcore. Think poison the well, remembering never, hopesfall, Shai Halud. Normally, hardcore is punk influenced. Think Slapshot, Judge, DYS, etc. Bands like Shadows Fall, Killswitch, and Unearth, etc... - well, there's been music like that forever. It's called METAL. Why when Death Angel, Forbidden, Exodus, and Metallica did it was it any different? Unearth IS a bit metalcore, as the vocals are all hardcore style, but the music is much more metal than most bands in the genre. This is why I hate labels. They serve an incredibly good purpose at first, but then people twist the shit out of them til they have no clue what they're talking about. You have to be kidding me... SHADOWS FALL these days HAS removed most of the Hardcore from their sound to become a kind of generic modern Metal band, but KILLSWITCH ENGAGE and UNEARTH are NOT strictly Metal bands by any means. These bands probably don't even listen to EXODUS or FORBIDDEN, they sound like their main influences are mid-late 90's Victory bands. |
| __________________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 7:18pm - BestialOnslaught ""] Mike_FOD said:Who would ever consider DRI to be grind? They were crossover, which meant a thrash/hxc hybrid. As for Siege...they were more hxc and slightly proto-grind. Not all grind has to be political either. Instead of that whole big description, you could sum up grind like this.... De-tuned punk riffs, blasting, scream/growl trade offs, and should always be blitz (very short songs). Listen to Discordance Axis, 324, Nyctophobic, Mule Skinner, Dahmer and Terrorizer for real grind. Another thing... fuck all nu hxc kids who think that by screaming nonsense into a mic, and making a stupid DEP rip off noise with the guitar, that their band is grind. I hope you fall into a lake of acid. Great post... Though I agree with Josh about early early DRI. |
| _________________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 8:10pm - projectilevomit ""] napalm death has been together longer than any other "grind" band fear of god was doing better shit than them way before ND was grind...dont get me wrong ND fuckin kills but i think fear of god was better at it. Some grind bands i think should get some credit Cripple Bastards/Fear of god/Repulision/Impetigo/Gore beyond necropsy/Gut(the one from germany)/tMiligant tumor/Squashed bowles/Catasexual urge motivation/Ulcer/Cream Face/Human Greed very early phobia/some dropdead stuff all though they hate it when peopel call them a grind band/dead infection/CSSO/Sore throat/Hellnation/Paterina/the first carcass demo was grind i dont care after that they were a metal band/Meat shits/Anal whore/Brutal truth i could go on and on but i know all of you know whats up with grind... |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 8:14pm - Dissector ""] projectilevomit said:napalm death has been together longer than any other "grind" band fear of god was doing better shit than them way before ND was grind...dont get me wrong ND fuckin kills but i think fear of god was better at it. Some grind bands i think should get some credit Cripple Bastards/Fear of god/Repulision/Impetigo/Gore beyond necropsy/Gut(the one from germany)/tMiligant tumor/Squashed bowles/Catasexual urge motivation/Ulcer/Cream Face/Human Greed very early phobia/some dropdead stuff all though they hate it when peopel call them a grind band/dead infection/CSSO/Sore throat/Hellnation/Paterina/the first carcass demo was grind i dont care after that they were a metal band/Meat shits/Anal whore/Brutal truth i could go on and on but i know all of you know whats up with grind... I like you. Nice screename. Think I'll IM you because I'm bored |
| _________________________________________ [Oct 19,2004 8:20pm - projectilevomit ""] go for it man |
| _____________________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 1:28am - MarkFuckingRichards ""] projectilevomit said:napalm death has been together longer than any other "grind" band fear of god was doing better shit than them way before ND was grind...dont get me wrong ND fuckin kills but i think fear of god was better at it. Some grind bands i think should get some credit Cripple Bastards/Fear of god/Repulision/Impetigo/Gore beyond necropsy/Gut(the one from germany)/tMiligant tumor/Squashed bowles/Catasexual urge motivation/Ulcer/Cream Face/Human Greed very early phobia/some dropdead stuff all though they hate it when peopel call them a grind band/dead infection/CSSO/Sore throat/Hellnation/Paterina/the first carcass demo was grind i dont care after that they were a metal band/Meat shits/Anal whore/Brutal truth i could go on and on but i know all of you know whats up with grind... i was just noting that napalm death is one of the longest running grind bands and has influenced a shitload of bands during their time and after their time, spanning many genres. i haven't heard much fear of god...i can say they are definitely awesome from what i've heard so far though. also, good call on phobia. i'm surprised i forgot to think of them |
| _______________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 8:58am - Joe/NotCommon ""] I hate all this new grindcore thats so clean sounding and revolve there songs around mosh breakdowns that go into blast beats and are not interesting in anyway. I call them metalcore or just bad. I enjoy my grindcore the same as I enjoy my women, dirty. |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 9:19am - Josh_Martin ""] projectilevomit said:fear of god was doing better shit than them way before ND was grind. That's not true. Scum was recorded in 86. Fear of God didn't form until 87. |
| _________________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 1:40pm - attendmyrequiem ""] Dissector said: I like you. Nice screename. Think I'll IM you because I'm bored awwww. how cute! |
| ________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 3:37pm - XmikeX ""] all you need to know Discordance Axis = grindcore Deaddeaddeath = cowboy boot homoerotic foolishness |
| ______________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 3:39pm - swamplorddvm ""] Check out my Grind post!.. |
| ______________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 3:39pm - swamplorddvm ""] oxwhq |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 5:11pm - Dissector ""] attendmyrequiem said:Dissector said: I like you. Nice screename. Think I'll IM you because I'm bored awwww. how cute! Te-Hehehehe, it's just whenever anybody mentions Impetigo I get all warm and fuzzy inside. |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 7:15pm - ArrowHead ""] BestialOnslaught said: You have to be kidding me... SHADOWS FALL these days HAS removed most of the Hardcore from their sound to become a kind of generic modern Metal band, but KILLSWITCH ENGAGE and UNEARTH are NOT strictly Metal bands by any means. These bands probably don't even listen to EXODUS or FORBIDDEN, they sound like their main influences are mid-late 90's Victory bands. Shadows Fall never sounded anything like hardcore, so I've got no idea what you're talking about there. I think maybe we're dealing with a generation gap here or something. I grew up listening to hardcore and metal in the early 80's. When I hear a band like Back of Tha Neck, or Terror, or Cheech, that's what hardcore used to sound like. When I hear the bands people refer to as hardcore nowadays, I don't really consider it to be hardcore. Maybe hardcore influenced, but in the same way one might call Led Zeppelin blues influenced, or Dave Matthews folk influenced. Bands like Killswitch and Unearth are in no way hardcore, musically. As I said before, the only thing about thier music I would relate in any way to hardcore music would be the screamed vocals. Hardcore is a derivative of punk. Please show me the sloppy 3 chord riffs, or the jangly guitars, or the gang vocal choruses, or anything I could consider hardcore about thier sounds. |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 7:24pm - ArrowHead ""] By the way, to further show where I stand on the issue, I honestly don't think 90% of the people on this board have the slightest clue what "hardcore" music is. I'm not calling you guys ignorant, I'm just saying that the genre has been widened and mutated so badly since it's inception that there's very few bands around nowadays that play hardcore music. Back in the day I was lucky enough to watch bands like Stars and Stripes, DYS, Slapshot, Murphy's Law, Judge, the Bruisers, Sheer Terror, etc... change the entire punk/skinhead scene and spur the entire hardcore movement in boston and NY. Since then, a few bands like Bane, Terror, etc.. have continued on with the style, but otherwise the term "hardcore" has been adopted and misused by all kinds of bands that never would have fit on the bill with a single one of these bands. I see it all the time, people refer to thier bands as "hardcore" thinking that that means they're heavy, or underground, or whatever. |
| _____________________________________________ [Oct 20,2004 8:36pm - MarkFuckingRichards ""] i agree that there a lot of "hardcore" bands these days that aren't exactly the hardcore you speak of. granted, those bands are definitely hardcore, and all damn good ones at that (minus bane, can't stand em, but that's beside the point...), but the times have changed, and bands have changed with it. these days, there are a million sub genres/classifications since the sound of hardcore has changed so much. same goes with metal. back when hardcore was started, it was all just hardcore. plain and simple. when metal started to solidify, it was just metal. but since both styles have been around for decades now, there have been many changes. now there's old school hardcore, new school hardcore as a broad term, brutal hardcore, emotional hardcore, metallic hardcore, etc. and with metal, you've got thrash, old school death metal, brutal death, progressive metal, power metal, black metal, melodic metal, etc etc. then there are styles that have been adopted from mixing genres together (not just hardcore and metal), to make such styles as grind and metalcore. as far as unearth and killswitch go, i can see the reasoning in placing them in the metal category. i believe both bands have straightforward and underlying elements/influences of hardcore and metal alike, thus why i would call them metalcore. they may not have elements of the hardcore stylings we know of that started it all, but as far as what's going on today in music, both bands have elements of metal and hardcore. unearth have a shitload of breakdowns, most of which stem from hardcore. granted, metal probably used more slam riffs than hardcore in the beginning, whether moshy or not, but there is definitely a difference between a metal slam and a hardcore breakdown. the vocals, as you mentioned are way more hardcore oriented in unearth. in fact, i don't think there is any variation at all in the vocals. most of the music is metal oriented, i will admit, but not enough for me to consider them full on metal. killswitch engage's vocals are also hardcore oriented most of the time as you mentioned, with very little metal vocal stylings mixed in. the clean singing can be found more in metal i suppose rather than hardcore. the drums are very "gallop" oriented most of the time, a style used both in metal and hardcore, but this leans more in the hardcore direction for me. i don't blame anyone for calling unearth or killswitch engage metal, but i'm just saying that to my ears, they sound more like the metalcore category. maybe if the metalcore genre wasn't looked down upon so much as the bastard son of metal and hardcore, we'd all be a little bit easier on ourselves when it comes to this sort of debate. again, i will say that there is no possible way shadows fall is metalcore...i hate to beat a dead horse, but whatever. i'm bored and need to kill some time. also, i'll note that a shitload of the originators of hardcore,and many other notable hardcore acts, have said that hardcore is all about what you want to do and what is true to you, not necessarily a guideline on how the music should sound. one band that you listed, sheer terror, stated that they never wanted to make the same album over and over again, like most old school (and newer as well) hardcore acts did. they incorporated many elements outside of the hardcore genre, thus openning up new doorways to other hardcore bands. this showed the "hardcore community" or whatever you want to call it that there were more opportunities, so many other bands started incorporating foreign elements into hardcore. so from the old school hardcore you speak of, bands like earth crisis and madball arose, and now bands like full blown chaos, etc. to me, none of those bands sound the same but do fit into the hardcore category. there may be a lot of bands that call themselves hardcore and don't deserve to call themselves that because of their beliefs, sound, etc., but there are still a lot that can safely fit under the hardcore moniker, without having to sound like all the old bands that started hardcore. damn, that was too long. check plus to anyone who actually reads this all the way through. |
| _________________________________ [Oct 21,2004 12:35pm - XmikeX ""] "probably don't even listen to Exodus or Forbidden" easily the dumbest thing ever said throughout history. |
| ________________________________________ [Oct 21,2004 12:37pm - Joe/NotCommon ""] XmikeX said:"probably don't even listen to Exodus or Forbidden" easily the dumbest thing ever said throughout history. Next to your post about Discordance Axis? |
| _______________________________________ [Oct 21,2004 1:25pm - armageddonday ""] All I have to say is that I'm sick of hearing people call Daughters, the Locust, Dillinger Escape Plan, As The Sun Sets...grind bands. These band are not fucking grindcore for shit, they're not metal either but certainly not grindcore... There's not that many US grindcore band as far as I can think off....Impetigo, Hideous Mangleous, Repulsion, Assuck, Excrutiating Terror The older euro bands like Patareni, Fear Of God, and Napalm Death (Scum and FETO), I worship. |
| _______________________________________ [Oct 21,2004 3:11pm - Joe/NotCommon ""] I am with you Anne, this is war! |
| ______________________________ [Oct 21,2004 3:20pm - nick ""] this thread is gay. all i got out of it was putting the 'proto-' before a genre of music makes me think that it is that genre played by robots. [img] [img] [img] human grindcore is obsolete. |