Fri 3/18 at The Guru Room In Plymouth: SUICIDE DREAM, Obsidian Tongue, Sauriel, Clever Titles Have Parentheses[views:12724][posts:96][show listing] __________________________________ [Mar 6,2011 11:32am - ShadowSD ""] Friday, March 18 at The Guru Room in Plymouth, MA SUICIDE DREAM Obsidian Tongue Sauriel Clever Titles Have Parentheses 21+, 9 pm, $5 First Suicide Dream show of 2011, and our first time playing in Plymouth. Set times to be determined, but right now I'm guessing that we're on at about 10 pm or so, I'll update below when I know all the set times. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 6,2011 12:27pm - ShadowSD ""] Should be a pretty heavy show, Sauriel is the new project of Jon Helme from The Accursed. |
| _________________________________________ [Mar 6,2011 12:47pm - bloblovesmusic ""] awesome lineup here! however I'll ask it, Clever Titles Have Parentheses? what a bizarre name |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 6,2011 1:16pm - the_reverend ""] I believe that they are saying that their name isn't clever. |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 6,2011 1:16pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] I've yet to see a show at the goooooooroooooo, and it's 3 minutes from where I live. Usually with the lineups, my money is better spent the next morning across the street at Percy's, but maybe if I'm free I'll stop in for this one. |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 6,2011 1:17pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] How much does it cost, by the way? I so wish that place still sold homebrew beer instead of being an indian restaurant or whatever now. Clothing store/Beer brewery/indian food/mosh palace. What a weird fucking history that place has. |
| _________________________________ [Mar 6,2011 2:38pm - ShadowSD ""] Not sure what the cover will be, working on finding this out right now, will update shortly. |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 6,2011 3:05pm - the_reverend ""] Thought you lived in NH. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 6,2011 3:59pm - dreadkill ""] Clever titles have parentheses is the goofiest band name I've heard in a while. |
| _________________________________ [Mar 6,2011 7:45pm - ShadowSD ""] Maybe they have a song called (dickbro) |
| _________________________________ [Mar 7,2011 8:47am - ShadowSD ""] Although I wonder sometimes if bands with very long names just have a sadistic urge to force others to type. |
| _________________________________ [Mar 7,2011 2:38pm - ShadowSD ""] ArrowHeadNLI said:How much does it cost, by the way? Finally got in touch with someone down there who had an answer on this, they said it's $5. (Top post edited to reflect this) |
| _________________________________ [Mar 8,2011 2:43pm - ShadowSD ""] Suicide Dream Official Website Obsidian Tongue, Sauriel, and CTHP can be found on myspace. |
| _______________________________ [Mar 8,2011 2:59pm - burnsy ""] Damn, OR would've fit nicely on this bill. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 8,2011 11:08pm - ShadowSD ""] burnsy said:Damn, OR would've fit nicely on this bill. I think Hollywood East Promotions(?) is who's in charge of booking metal shows at this venue, although in our case we happened to jump on this just by talking to one of the other bands on the show. But yeah, we'd definitely be down for playing with you guys in the future. |
| ________________________________ [Mar 8,2011 11:44pm - burnsy ""] I think that's accurate regarding who books there. Sounds cool about playing in the future. See ya there. |
| _________________________________________ [Mar 9,2011 9:34am - atthehauntedNLI ""] It's a nice place to play. It's in the back of an Indian restaurant, kinda weird but once you get back there it has a legit stage, bar and sound system. Plus the people who run it are cool. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 10,2011 8:06am - ShadowSD ""] Sounds good, looking forward to this. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 10,2011 6:26pm - ShadowSD ""] Funny thing is I've never tried Indian food, never had the opportunity really as there's nothing like that around where I live, but I've always wanted to. Here's hoping I won't get TOO adventurous on portions before we play and get stuck with an onstage assfire. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 11,2011 4:37pm - ShadowSD ""] Anyone who's had Indian food before have suggestions as to what to try? |
| ________________________________ [Mar 11,2011 4:46pm - burnsy ""] Hit up Brendan from Obsidian Tongue. He'll tell ya what's up. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 12,2011 11:28am - ShadowSD ""] Cool, will do. Leave it to the band with Tongue in their name to give good advice on taste. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 15,2011 3:13pm - ShadowSD ""] Bump for this Friday. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 12:36pm - ShadowSD ""] A fifth band has been added, I'll update when I know more, but sets are now 30 mins long and the first band starts at 9 pm sharp. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 1:24pm - ShadowSD ""] Also, to correct the top post, we (Suicide Dream) are on from 9:45 - 10:15 pm, not sure of the rest of the order yet. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 1:31pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] I may go to this still. I have some other things to do that day. We'll see. Burnsy, are you going? |
| ________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 1:33pm - burnsy ""] I do believe I shall be attending this momentous occasion. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 1:51pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] Sweet. If I make it we should burn one. Burning with Burnsy. |
| ________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 2:05pm - burnsy ""] Burns burns? Yes... He does. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 2:36pm - ShadowSD ""] ITT: Names are best taken literally. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 2:41pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] Who is the fifth band? this booking company sucks pee pee. 5 bands is too many, I don't want to spend as much time watching breakdown/setup/line checks as I do watching bands. Glad to see local promoters haven't gotten any better since I stopped playing out. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 3:09pm - ShadowSD ""] We usually don't work with local promoters nine times out of ten (instead booking venues ourselves directly whenever possible), but getting on this show has been different than our usual approach because instead of me talking to a real person to get the gig, just about the only communication has involved our singer getting messages from Sauriel's singer through Facebook, and thus the flow of information has been very one-way and slow to get to me. I hate not just having a name and number and being able to call and talk to a real person to get answers on something, but I guess Face-booking shows is the wave of the future (ugh). But yeah, I agree that the promotion company would probably have been wise to go with four bands instead, certainly in our case my drummer and I have a four hour plus round trip and our band only gets to play 30 minutes - but hey, roll with the punches, right? :duffbeer: |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 3:28pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] While I'm compassionate to your own side of things - 30 minute sets are GAY, I'm more concerned with the audience. Most bands SUCK DICK when it comes to breakdown and setup times. Which means for every 30 min of music we get, we get to watch 15-20 minutes of boob-tards dancing around with drumkits and microphones. The more times that happens, the more people that say "hey, you wanna stay here bored and wait for the next band we've never heard of to play, or you wanna go across the street to Sam Diegos and pick up drunken sluts?" Point being that by the time you get your 30 minutes of rock-star time, me and burnsy are off in the woods somewhere getting high and you're stuck playing to 5 other band members and two random fat chicks that turn out to be those 5 guys girlfriends. 5 band bills always annoy the shit out of me. It's really only worth it if the linup is literally 5 of my favorite bands. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 3:30pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] Only smoking drugs at Burial Hill cemetary is real. Getting high with the fore-fathers. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 3:41pm - ShadowSD ""] Well, I certainly hope it's not one of those play for the other band members type deals (and I'm optimistic it won't be anything close to that since I've been pushing this pretty hard) - but yeah, I see your point that there's always a risk in losing the audience during a break down, kind of sucks. To that end, I actually have someone riding up with us at this show to help me set up quickly since I have both the guitar and keyboard to get running, should really speed things up. In any case, I hope the existence of a fifth band doesn't sour you on coming out. Oh, and in regards what you guys mentioned earlier, I will be happy to throw some killer stuff in if I run into you guys before or after our set, just come say high. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 3:51pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] ShadowSD said: Oh, and in regards what you guys mentioned earlier, I will be happy to throw some killer stuff in if I run into you guys before or after our set, just come say high. Hey, aint you a lefty? |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 3:53pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] And if you're on at 9:45 I'll likely show up a little before you play, check you out, and run away after. Unless you guys TRULY recommend any of these other bands. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 4:05pm - ShadowSD ""] ArrowHeadNLI said: ShadowSD said: Oh, and in regards what you guys mentioned earlier, I will be happy to throw some killer stuff in if I run into you guys before or after our set, just come say high. Hey, aint you a lefty? Yup, indeed I am sinister. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 4:24pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] I wanna play your guitar. Whatcha got? |
| __________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 4:25pm - ShadowSD ""] ArrowHeadNLI said:And if you're on at 9:45 I'll likely show up a little before you play, check you out, and run away after. Unless you guys TRULY recommend any of these other bands. Glad you'll be able to make it. I can say nothing but good things about Jon's old band (The Accursed) but I have yet to hear his new band or the others playing, so I will have to rely on some of the forum members here who are from MA and have caught these bands live to give first-hand recommendations. Everything I have heard second-hand in regards to them has been positive. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 4:31pm - ShadowSD ""] ArrowHeadNLI said:I wanna play your guitar. Whatcha got? A black Aria Pro II with a Seymour Duncan Distortion humbucker. (I also have a Washburn with a Seymour Duncan Dimebag Darrell humbucker and a Fender Acoustic, but they won't be with me at the show) Always good talking to another lefty... and one who plays lefty, too. So many lefty guitarists learn right-handed. |
| ________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 4:34pm - burnsy ""] I can vouch for obsidian tongue and sauriel. Sauriel is a blend of black metal with that amon amarth/viking metal feel. Obsidian tongue is one of my favorite NE bands. Really trippy black metal. The first time I got baked before seeing them, I decided I never wanted to see them not baked again haha. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 4:35pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] The worst is I met some right handed tard that bought a lefty guitar to play upside down so he could be like hendrix. It's like, there's only one friggin guitar in the store that's left handed, and some idiot righty buys it to mod it as right handed. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 4:37pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] burnsy said:. The first time I got baked before seeing them, I decided I never wanted to see them not baked again haha. We can take care of that. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 6:50pm - ShadowSD ""] ArrowHeadNLI said:The worst is I met some right handed tard that bought a lefty guitar to play upside down so he could be like hendrix. It's like, there's only one friggin guitar in the store that's left handed, and some idiot righty buys it to mod it as right handed. Damn, that's as offensive as seeing a girl with natural double DDs and telling her to get a boob job. Like it's not hard enough for us to find lefty guitars in a store? I have to say, access to guitars is probably the hardest part of playing left-handed, but on the plus side there is at least the visual symmetry onstage when you have a lefty on one side and a righty on the other. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 6:55pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] As for access to guitars, I'm up to 16 now. thank goodness for Rondo and Ebay. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 6:56pm - ShadowSD ""] What do you have? |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 7:03pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] hmm, going left to right - Dean Hollywood Starfire warrior copy Lawson "Goth" (esp f-series copy) Starfire Rhodes V Ibanez Pro-Line (1985 style) Ravenwest RG5200nt Agile PS900 (PRS copy) Jackson Dk2 Douglas Fulcrum (king V copy) Agile Al-2000 w/ floyd (gibson axcess style) Gibson Les Paul Deluxe (1976) Douglas something - I forget the model. Think offset V with Paddle style headstock, like a BC Rich or something. Epiphone SG Douglas WRL 590nt (like an ibanez S series, but neck through with natural finish) Brice HXB 5 string bass Honor 4 string bass Fender San Miguel acoustic and my beater Celebrity acoustic. I think that's everything. Sometimes I leave a guitar in the other room/bathroom and forget I have it. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 7:31pm - ShadowSD ""] Nice. It's rare for there to be collection of left-handed guitars, well... anywhere. In fact, even including Guitar Center down here I don't think I've seen more than five in one place at once. Apparently, it does not disrupt the space-time continuum after all. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 16,2011 7:46pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] lol |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 17,2011 11:13am - ShadowSD ""] How do you deal with not being able to try out the guitar before you buy it though? That part always drives me nuts, and is one reason my collection has not expanded (well that and having a kid). |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 17,2011 12:23pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] honestly, I just try to take an informed gamble. Read reviews, etc.... I do my own setup and minor guitarwork, so I can usually make most guitars playable. With the Rondo guitars, they have a forum with a billion lefties, so I used to wait til someone else bought one, then check out their pictures and reviews. I quickly learned, though, that the majority of the Rondo instruments were really good for the money, so now I don't worry so much about jumping in without a net. However, I won't say the same about Starfire and Lawson. Both needed heavy work to get them playable. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 17,2011 6:31pm - ShadowSD ""] Good to hear it's worked out, I'll keep that in mind. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 17,2011 6:36pm - ShadowSD ""] burnsy said:I can vouch for obsidian tongue and sauriel. Sauriel is a blend of black metal with that amon amarth/viking metal feel. Obsidian tongue is one of my favorite NE bands. Really trippy black metal. The first time I got baked before seeing them, I decided I never wanted to see them not baked again haha. I didn't get to say this above, but thanks for writing this description and filling in the blanks on the bands I haven't seen myself, reading it makes me even more pumped to be going to/playing this show. As to the latter concern, I can assure you that won't be a problem on this night. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 17,2011 7:06pm - ShadowSD ""] Ha, OK, a quick correction, so after further research the band's name is actually supposed to be Clever Titles (Have Parentheses). Makes more sense now... |
| ________________________________ [Mar 17,2011 7:20pm - burnsy ""] Lol yeah I thought they were trying to be ironic without the parentheses. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 17,2011 9:07pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] Still gay. I recommend we do drugs during their set. |
| ________________________________ [Mar 17,2011 9:35pm - burnsy ""] Agreed. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 18,2011 2:06am - ArrowHeadNLI ""] Added band is New Ditty. On the show flyer I saw, it looks like they're headlining. There's actually a few friends of mine in that band. They absolutely do NOT fit this bill. Should be interesting, now I might have to stay all night. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 18,2011 12:52pm - ShadowSD ""] :CHEERS: |
| __________________________________ [Mar 18,2011 1:09pm - ShadowSD ""] Yup, confirmed, New Ditty is the added band, although the site I found where they were included in the line-up listed them at the bottom for some reason, implying that they'd be on first (it had Obsidian Tongue listed as the headliner), so I'm honestly not sure exactly what to expect in terms of order at this point. Guess we'll find out when we get there. |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 18,2011 1:17pm - Alexecutioner ""] Obsidian Tongue killed it last night, they always do. wont be able to make it out for this one but definitely enjoyed their set last night |
| __________________________________ [Mar 18,2011 3:54pm - ShadowSD ""] TONIGHT! [img] Anyone who doesn't come to this show is going to get an ass beating from Glass Joe. You've been warned. Gham gham may be the last words you ever hear. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 18,2011 4:06pm - ShadowSD ""] Actually wait, this is an Indian place... [img] Much better. |
| ________________________________ [Mar 18,2011 4:08pm - burnsy ""] ShadowSD said:Actually wait, this is an Indian place... [img] Much better. Haha, I was gonna say. Nice save. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 18,2011 7:23pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] [img] Looks to me like () is opening, and New Ditty is headlining. So my plan is to get high, miss (Clever Titles), see SD, See other band, then find way to sneak out before my friends band plays without hurting any feelings so I can repeat what I did during the () set. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 19,2011 2:42pm - ShadowSD ""] Fun show. Indian Food, Historic Rocks, and Walking Around and Smoking Between Bands Kicks Ass. Promotion Companies suck balls on the other hand (that flyer had a different order on their site 24 hours before the show - which also means they got our name wrong twice despite updating the flyer - not even to get into their behavior at the show) - but a pretty good turnout nonetheless in spite of that, it was cool to meet people from here as well as seeing some fans of ours we hadn't seen in a few years. Thanks to everyone who came out. Obsidian Tongue and Sauriel were both quite good, and the Clever Titles band was a lot better than I expected, kind of felt bad we were mowing down food during their set but we could still hear them loud and clear. A very kick ass setup though at this place, and the Indians who own the place get an A+ for supporting the scene, but they REALLY need to dump the promotion company and immediately, as I recommend that any bands reading this do not get onto any shows they are involved with. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 19,2011 4:16pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] Tell us more about the promotions company. This is something I may consider getting involved in around here, so I'd actually benefit from elaboration. I did talk to some people and get details on why they added that fifth band, and honestly I'll tell ya - a good 25 people in that crowd showed up because they were playing. Even though they were digging a lot of the metal stuff more, you'd be surprised how many of those kids FOUND OUT about the show because Ditty was playing. That's why it was so weird, they're not metal, but a lot of their friends and fans are. It was kind of cool. All those kids I was talking to and introduced you to were all friends of that band. I did dig the show. SD was better than I expected, the smell of the food made me want to shit my pants, the HERB was AWESOME, the Plymouth Rock is still a fake, OT was good but I missed half their set, the S band I can't read the logo of was better than expected, but the guitars were pretty much NON EXISTANT. I won't lie. New Ditty surprised me. I was expecting a totally different lineup, because the last I saw of him the guitarist Jessie was a SINGER. So I was shocked that Jessie was a rocking performer on guitar, and his brother the singer had one hell of a voice. Didn't expect that at all. Not really my style of music (southern metal like Down) they were pretty good at it. Overall, LOTS OF LEFTIES HERE TONIGHT! In Addition to Shadow and myself, Vinnie the drummer of New Ditty was also a leftie. Pretty weird. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 19,2011 4:43pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] For the record, my ears are still ringing. Not from the music, but from Mikey's incredibly drunken sister who would not shut the FUCK UP at the end of the night. I'm sure everyone else could hear her too. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 19,2011 8:18pm - ShadowSD ""] Heh, I think I know who you're talking about. Also, our drummer Casey is actually a lefty too although he sets up his kit righty. I'm glad I got to smoke you and burnsy up with that stuff, nothing like it. Our friend Mark (the other dude that smoked with us) was so lit he was bouncing around during the last band like a hippie fest, my singer's like "what did you DO to him?", hahaha, the joy of being a bad influence. New Ditty wasn't really my thing and they didn't seem to me as into what they were doing as the other bands, I do like Down-style southern stoner metal but that's not really how they came off to me, but I like the fact that they started with AIC's Rain When I Die which you don't expect to hear. They played that well and it's a good tune. Other than that the vocals were rough. But they did bring a bunch of people so that's cool. The issue with the promotion company is that they appeared to pocket well over 50% of the door collected at the show (if what Sauriel and us got paid was any indication), as it appeared they payed bands per each person they brought either $0 or $2.50, depending on which they felt like - and with each person only considered brought by a band if they say the band's name at the door. The problem for me though wasn't that as much as the fact that all this was told to me by the promoter only at the END of the night, and despite us drawing a number of people, he told us we brought two who said our name and as a result weren't getting paid ANYTHING. If I had known that's how they were counting it instead of an even door split of course I would have put on our website, on this thread, on the e-mail we sent out to our mailing list, and told the people I called who attended "hey please say you came to see Suicide Dream" - but the promotion company waited until the end of the show to tell us anything so we would be screwed over. Now, to the IMMENSE CREDIT of Jon and the rest of Sauriel, they took care of us because we drove a combined ten hours round trip between the three of our vehicles, and out of respect to them and their ability to continue working with this company if they wish I didn't confront the promoter any further - but the guy's attitude towards us and bewildered expectations that we already knew everything without ever calling or e-mailing us any of the information was beyond dickish. The level of snide frat boyish condescension is not the kind of attitude any bands should have to work with. That was really the attitude from them all night: "oh didn't you know before what I just told you", like when I brought the keyboard onstage and the soundguy said "What, no, I always tell keyboardists to bring an amp", as if I missed a memo. I also heard complaints from a few bandmembers/crew about the promotion company's soundcrew, that they were acting like dicks to bands - and I have a certain amount of sympathy for the need of a soundguy to move a show along, since I've been there plenty of times, but it's unusual for me to play a show and hear so many complaints from people about a sound crew's attitude, so that kind of says something. The soundguy also refused to put any guitar through the monitors when our singer asked, refused to put any reverb on her voice when she asked, and I ended up having to put my keyboard through my guitar amp for us to save time and not have any of our set cut. Then there's the misspelled name on the flyer (on at least two versions that were created if not more), the order that wasn't solidified until the night before, and the sense looking back that they didn't even bother to take five seconds when they added us to the show to see who we were, what we've done, and or even where we come from, as evidenced by this part of the conversation: "You drove four hours round trip?! Where are you guys from?!" "CT" "Oh, wow, CT huh?" "Yeah" *shrugs shoulders* "Sorry." (drenched in sarcasm) |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 6:59am - anonymous ""] You can tell the promo company sucks just by looking at the flyer. 1. Their name sucks. Hollywood East Promotions? In Plymouth, MA? Seriously? Do they think they're going to find the next big superstar? Gay. 2. The logo for the promo company is bigger and stands out more than any of the band logos. It's more prominent than the date/time of the show and the name of the venue, too. 3. Flyer looks like 4 different flyers chopped together by a total hack who thinks they're good at photoshop when they really suck. Anyone can make a better flyer than this ugly piece of shit. The sad thing is it's the same template they use for all the rest of their flyers. They throw some chunk in the middle and call it a day like it's going to look good, lazy fucks! 4. What's up with all the legal bullshit? All that "SM" and "LLC" after everything is just a front to make them look more professional than they really are. The dumb "The original music revolution" quote needs a tiny "SM" after it? Really? Also, why does it say, "Hollywood East Promotions, LLC is not affiliated, in any way, with Plymouth Rock Studios, LLC" in tiny letters at the bottom? Who the fuck is Plymouth Rock Studios? And what the fuck do they have to do with this flyer that has absolutely no mention of them at all? Did Plymouth Rock Studios sue them? WTF? I looked at their web site, and most of the shows they booked were at this place in Plymouth. The others were at some shitty bar in Sandwich and KC's Tap in Pawtucket. Nuff said. |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 7:05am - anonymous ""] Holy shit! Now they're booking at some shit bar in Marshfield. These guys are really makin' the big time! |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 11:52am - ArrowHeadNLI ""] Wow. Not sure where to even start, but I think I'm 100% in agreement with the Anonymous poster. 1) Name IS STUPID. The whole "not to be confused with Plymouth Rock Studios" - PRS is the new real-deal hollywood film studio that is going to be opening up here in Plymouth. Sounds like they picked the name so that they'd be mistaken for the real deal, and then make disclaimers about it so they don't get sued. WEAK. 2) The logo is HUUUGE. I'm used to seeing a little bitty "blah blah presents" at the top or bottom, but this thing makes it seem like the whole reason to GO to the show is to see the promotion company? And then at the show, the banner for Hollywood East is the biggest thing in the room, and right above the stage. Oh, and I LOVE HOW THEY LEFT THE BIG SCREEN TV ON DURING THE FIRST TWO BANDS SETS! I hate sports, and even I kept looking at the game instead of the bands. 3) I actually feel like the flyer isn't awful, if you just remove the promo company logo which clashes with EVERYTHING else on there. However, after reading their site and seeing that their ENTIRE idea of promoting is sending out copies of that flyer to their buddies on Facebook? 4) Funny, because I thought exactly that - all the LLC and servicemark stuff made me feel like the guy must really have his shit together. You're right, it's clearly another way to make his company look legit, since clearly by the flyer, logo, etc... he feels that the bands are secondary, while the main focus is WHO IS PUTTING ON THE SHOW. This Guru room looks like a great place for small shows in an area where there is NOTHING going on for metal or music in general. I'm really tempted to try and work with this company, or try going directly to the Guru people and see if I can snag 1 night a month or something for shows. |
| ________________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 12:12pm - Alexecutioner ""] i wanted to play down there since we havent played much down in that area.... now... i dont. paying bands by how many people say your name when they walk in is one of the worst ways to run a door. mostly because ive seen it happen before and could guarantee that more people came to the show than the door guy tried to tell us, then he keeps the money |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 12:30pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] I agree. However, as devils advocate, paying a guarantee on a metal show can HURT, because in a suburb like this you really have no idea what to expect for draw, even with well known bands. I remember booking Slapshot at corner's nightclub in Carver in the early 90's, I think all of 50 kids showed up. That weekend, I watched them completely pack a club in Boston. (the channel). It's too easy to promise a band $100, then find out at the end of the night you owe $500, and only pulled in $200 on the door. This show is a good example. No matter how you slice it, I'm positive there could not have been more than 50 people through those doors at this show. No matter who came to see who, that's still only $250 to split between FIVE bands. Ouch. So counting heads at the door sucks, we agree. And promising guarantees sucks for the promoter, I think we can agree. So what do people in BANDS feel is the fairest method? Personally, a billion years ago when I booked shows, it was like this: book 4 bands. MAX. First band gets 20-30 minutes, and exposure. ZERO money. However, no obligation to draw, sell tickets, etc... - every band needs a place to start out and get a following. Second band gets 30-45 minutes, and also plays free, or for some token amount - like 5% of door. (which, in the above case, is a whopping $13). Third band gets 45-hour, paid like $75 (on a show like this one) Fourth band (headliner) gets paid like $150, and gets an hour or more if there's time. Now this way, even on a SHIT drawing show like the above, that $250 is enough to pay your bands and still have a few bucks left for soundguy, etc. (but not much - show is still a finacial failure) Now, to get incentive to bring in people, instead of counting heads at the door or asking bands to sell tickets, you add in for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th bands an incentive - a percentage of door money. So for example, offer the headliner $150 + 10% of door. So on a $5 show, if you can draw in 50 friends/fans/etc... you get another $25. But now if all the bands combined bring in that many, you're looking at an extra $100. Same thing for the other two bands, but you offer a lesser percentage, i.e. 5% Let me know what you guys think. |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 12:33pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] p.s. - the good thing about a percentage of total door is that it's not just YOUR fans that get you paid. You can use the strength of the other bands on the bill to sell your show. "Hey, you like so-and-so, we're playing with them on Friday. Check it out, they're awesome!" A fan for the other band is still a potential fan for you, and is STILL money in your pocket. |
| ________________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 12:59pm - Alexecutioner ""] i see where you are coming from. but i wasnt really saying bands should get a guarantee either. when we book our shows we usually split all the money up between bands, kicking a little extra to the headliner or the last two bands that played since they usually had a bigger impact on the draw. but in the end everyone usually gets a cut off the door for helping make the show what it was. i dont mind playing for free, its just super fucking lame when you go to see if you made any door money at the end of the night and some short douche with bad breath running sound at Sammy's Patio tries to tell you that you only brought two people through the door when i personally smoked weed with more friends out behind the club than he claims we brought through the door to begin with, then tells us to go screw with no pay. i will play for free and not care, since in the end i am more concerned with having a good time and putting on a good show, but its just bullshit when you know you've brought in more people then the sound guy would try to have you believe |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 1:01pm - Alexecutioner ""] paying bands based on the amount of fans they bring can be extremely useful if you do in fact bring like 25-30 people, since you'll get most of the door money. but in my experience the door guy is a fucking moron and doesnt actually find out ALL of the bands an individual is there to see, since in most cases no one goes to a show to see one band then leave. some do, but most people i know would go to a show to at least see a few bands they like on the bill. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 1:11pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] My problem with the "counting heads" method, is that if you're a decent promotor you've booked bands that are a good mix. Otherwise you get "stay for one band and leave" syndrome, which is the worst curse a show can have. So if you have a kid that goes to a show because TWO bands he loves are playing, who does he say he's there to see? Why financially punish a BAND because their fans are also fans of the headliner? Instead, telling a band they get a percentage of ALL the fans, including those of the other bands? There's a lot more potential for EVERYONE to get paid. Thus, a lot more reason to actually go out and try to bring people in. Except the opener. I'm a big fan of putting bands on opening that it's their first show, or they're just starting out. Even if they can pick one or two fans up, it's worth giving them a chance to play in front of other people. Maybe even just the other bands, since they might get them onto another bill sometime. So the openers, for me, traditionally play for free. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 1:19pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] "when we book our shows we split all the money up" My problem here is when bands book their own shows, this is usually what they do. Then that band plays for a promoter's show, and calls them greedy and shady for "stealing half the door". I NEVER would have promised out more than a third of the door to bands, with guarantees or initial payouts being considered an up front cost. Same with the Sound, club cut, etc.... SO for instance, in my above scenario with 4 bands I'm promising them $100, $75, and $50. Plus I pay my sound guy $100. And the owner wants $200. So I EXPECT to have around $600 in my pocket before I even book the show or confirm the date, so I know EVERYONE gets paid no matter the draw. NOW, I would offer the headliner 15% of door, and 10% and 5% to the other two bands, The remaining 70%? That's mine. Some people look at this as unfair, but a promoter like the Hollywood guys, as bad as they're doing it, aren't just booking ONE show. They're trying to bring heads into that bar 3 nights a week. At that point, there's a lot more work, time, and effort involved for the promoter. It's more of a job than a one-off thing, and you need money to sustain it. So that when the show BOMBS, you're not $600 in debt. You've got something in the bank from the last show that DIDN'T bomb. I think enough of us have played gigs where we failed at OUR jobs, and didn't bring anyone in. For US, it's paying dues or part of the game. But think how a show like that ends up effecting the promoter. |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 1:23pm - Alexecutioner ""] ArrowHeadNLI said:So if you have a kid that goes to a show because TWO bands he loves are playing, who does he say he's there to see? Why financially punish a BAND because their fans are also fans of the headliner? this is exactly what happened, had a bunch of friends of ours show up, who also were there to see the headliner of course. and he tells us we broght two people through the door. shitty job at counting heads at the door for which band, honestly he probably doesnt even care, because at the end of the night if he can justify to himself that you didnt bring anyone through the door, he pays the headliner based on their head count and keeps the rest. paying no one else. just a bad way to do business, no band wants to deal with bs like that |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 1:28pm - Alexecutioner ""] i would rather just play a show and not get paid than have the door guy try to sell me a load of bs. makes the promoter look unprofessional and no one wants to work with them in the long run. i honestly dont believe local bands should be guaranteed money. but if you split the door money between the bands that played, everyone usually gets a little kick back and has more incentive to bring people out. you could also say that one of the bands might be doing more work for the others to get paid on, but im not overly concerned with not paying people based on draw, and more concerned with paying bands for their hard work and performance |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 1:59pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] Again, though, if you "split the door money", how much of the door do you feel the bands, overall, are entitled to? Remember, the promoter, sound man, and often the owner are getting paid out of that money too. It's not like the promoter is getting a paycheck or percentage of liquor sales from the bar. |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 2:06pm - Alexecutioner ""] In most cases with venues in Boston they take their cut for those expenses before they give us the door money at the end of the night, leaving us with what's left to go straight to the bands. Then we divide it evenly, usually giving at least an extra 20 bucks to the headliner depending on how well the show did. this may not be great business practices in terms of profit for a promotion company, but bands will usually be way more inclined to work with you again in the future, and not spend their time telling people how shitty the promoter is. that in itself will diminish the amount of people willing to work with you over time, especially in the age of the internet, word like that can travel fast. |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 2:15pm - Alexecutioner ""] thats not to say if you book your shows any other way that you are doing it wrong, your description of how you like to book shows is more than fair to bands in many ways. however i honestly feel that running the door by asking "who did you come to see" is the worst and most financially flawed way of running a show. since most people come to see more than one band, and it would seem that they either default head count to the headliner or just dont give a shit if you are playing either in the night |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 2:16pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] I just wanted to be sure, because it sounded like you though bands should get 100% of door. Like I said, I try to be cool enough to offer SOME money to the bands. And then I offer a percentage of the door in addition. The reason I pay more for each band is that the eventual goal for ME as a promoter is to work with bands that WILL draw large crowds. So the bands that do well get invited back, and get getter paying slots as they build a following. And in return, my job as a promoter is to continually seed this, by bringing in fresh and new bands for those opening slots so there are even more bands building up their own fanbase among the more proven bands' followings. I think this is really where all promoters over the last 15 years around here have dropped the ball. There's a level of responsibility a promoter has to the local bands if they monopolize a particular club or area. We are just as responsible for finding and exposing the local talent and really caring about getting the good bands out in front of people. Even people that may not know how good they are yet. |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 2:32pm - Alexecutioner ""] most definitely. if you ever decide to start booking some shows down in that area let me know, always love playing in new areas in front of new people. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 3:01pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] Well, problem is I have ZERO start up money. I was thinking about approaching Hollywood East and telling them about my experience and way of doing things, and to start see if they would allow me to set up one gig a month using my system, and splitting what I make with them 70/30 in their favor. If I can get more heads in there over the course of a few months of doing this, see if I can make it regular until I make enough money to pay the up-front costs of P.A. gear, etc.. (which they likely own) so I can start booking my own venue elsewhere. I don't want to steal their club or shut down Hollywood East. I just want to see them do it WELL, and be successful. I would KILL to start seeing good shows happen around here again. |
| ________________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 4:43pm - josh_hates_you ""] unless you are a promoter putting up $$ out of your own pocket and booking touring bands you really shouldn't be taking anything from the door. imho. $5 by 50 people which is average for a local metal show doesnt leave room for promoters to take off the top. if you are booking a touring band and you have 200 people paying $20 then there is some room to work with. for local shows, pay the soundguy/house whatever you agreed then split the rest evenly by the bands. being in a band that has opened and outdrawn the headliner several times, your (arrowhead) payout method wouldn't work out very well. |
| __________________________________________ [Mar 20,2011 7:35pm - douchebag_patrol ""] [img] |
| __________________________________ [Mar 21,2011 4:17pm - ShadowSD ""] There are lots of good points here. It's true that expenses have to be paid to put on a show, and it's also true that a show with only a $5 door is probably going to have a problem paying both the bands well and covering the bills (unless the draw is north of 100 people). As a result though, I also have to agree with Josh that promoters for local shows should not expect to get paid unless the show does REALLY well. Having spent a number of years booking shows at different venues in CT, MA, and RI, I always started with the premise that I didn't get anything for simply booking the show or posting a thread online. I'd even run the soundboard myself for free to reduce expenses so that everything aside from the expenses of the show (venue rental, doorperson, ticket-making cost, PA system) went to the bands. The real trick is keeping overhead down by finding venues that don't have an exorbitant rental or that don't need an external PA; avoiding both at the same is tricky (some places have both issues, like the ones I used to book unfortunately), but it can be done. Some venues are actually smart enough to realize that keeping all the alcohol sales is a steal for them even if there's no venue rent at all. As for the idea of bands that headline should get a bit more, I think this is quite fair. While something like nine out of ten of our shows in the last seven years have involved us headlining, on a few of those occasions where we headlined and didn't get a guarantee, things weren't always split fairly (including once where we got a significantly smaller share despite bringing 100% of the people), and I had to wonder exactly what the place was thinking. If all the bands are equally known then the band playing last shouldn't get a bonus, but if you've been playing for a while and broadly established yourself with lots of shows, it's perfectly fair to get more than a band that started playing out in the last year or two; we played almost a hundred shows from 2002-2003 and the vast majority we were a support band just playing wherever we could, sometimes getting paid a little but in many cases making zero even if the headliner got a few hundred bucks, and with no complaints. Not that that should be the case for openers, but it took a while to become a headliner on a regular basis, and we knew that's how it would be; everyone has to pay their dues. Even from 2003/2004 on as we went on to play headlining shows where we'd often make $300 or $500 or better, we've still at the same time mixed in occassional shows with our friends' bands (like this Guru show) even if we all we could expect is gas money. After all, no band in their right mind can expect to make $300 on a five dollar show/five band show. Arrowhead, I hope you have luck talking to the Guru directly, I think for the reasons described in this thread the promotion company itself isn't to be trusted, but if you can get anything going at this venue on your own I think it would be very worthwhile and we'd be happy to play anything you put together. We have a sound system if the one there belongs to the promotion company and you don't have one. I've considered even calling Guru myself to see if we can book a show there directly, but let me know first if you have any luck and we'll go through you. |
| __________________________________ [Mar 22,2011 8:25am - ShadowSD ""] Alexecutioner said:its just super fucking lame when you go to see if you made any door money at the end of the night and some short douche with bad breath running sound at Sammy's Patio tries to tell you that you only brought two people through the door when i personally smoked weed with more friends out behind the club than he claims we brought through the door to begin with, then tells us to go screw with no pay. Exactly what happened to us, there were at least five people off the top of my head at this show who came directly as a result of me personally and my efforts to advertise (three of whom we ATE WITH and who helped give business to the restaurant, but apparently one of them died in the subsequent minutes as our entire band supposedly only brought two people). The system of counting who came to see what band requires a lot of trust between the promoter/doorperson and the bands, and is usually asking for trouble unless everything is done right. Although my biggest issue with this show wasn't even that system, but that they didn't even TELL US this was how they were keeping track until the end of the night, while telling all the other bands weeks before. Putting the band that traveled the furthest and has played out the most at that kind of disadvantage is ridiculous, especially when they put out the most promotion and word of mouth about the show (over a thousand views on this thread plus an e-mail to over two hundred addresses on our mailing list, in addition to phone calls and putting it on our website). |
| __________________________________ [Mar 22,2011 8:48am - ShadowSD ""] I also want to add that this company never called or e-mailed us at anytime before this show about ANYTHING. It's not like they just failed to include that one detail about counting heads at the door, they never contacted us at any point period, no phone call, no e-mail, I didn't even know who the actual person was to talk to until the end of the show - and yet they expected us to know all their rules. It's like nothing I've ever experienced in all the years we've played out. |
| _______________________________ [Mar 22,2011 10:41am - Yeti ""] anonymous said:4. What's up with all the legal bullshit? All that "SM" and "LLC" after everything is just a front to make them look more professional than they really are. The dumb "The original music revolution" quote needs a tiny "SM" after it? this should have been the dead giveaway that they are a sham. "SM" really stood for "SARCASM METER". |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 22,2011 12:34pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] With the fact that they're using a hollywood theme and have already servicemarked it, I'm betting their ultimate goal is to somehow tie in or work with the Plymouth Rock studios when they open up. |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 22,2011 12:37pm - ArrowHeadNLI ""] ShadowSD said:I also want to add that this company never called or e-mailed us at anytime before this show about ANYTHING. It's not like they just failed to include that one detail about counting heads at the door, they never contacted us at any point period, no phone call, no e-mail, I didn't even know who the actual person was to talk to until the end of the show - and yet they expected us to know all their rules. It's like nothing I've ever experienced in all the years we've played out. I haven't mentioned it yet, but I'm glad you did. COMMUNICATION! It's soooo important. All my life, I've either dealt with some shitty promoter that doesn't communicate, tell you the lineup, details, pay, etc.... OR Some shitty bandmember that does all the booking themselves, and makes no effort to get any of that info. Pillory was my favorite band for that reason - Chris was incredibly good about getting details, directions, start times, etc..... and most of the promoters we worked with were okay - except Kenny Lanning, I still wanna kill that kid. |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 22,2011 3:37pm - Sacreligion ""] Kenny Landingoncocksalloverthenation is my favorite promoter simply because he books shows with no PA, takes all the money, and then asks for a ride home. BALLS |