Racial politics in black metal[views:5747][posts:45]____________________________________ [Feb 15,2006 9:49pm - infoterror ""] From 100% Metal Forum: " Every genre has shared beliefs. Similar ideas = similar sound = genre. In black metal, it is almost exclusively derived from European romanticism. Worship of the ancient, experience instead of material results, looking at life as adventure, death is balanced by beauty of life as a whole including suffering and death. European romantics like Keats, Shelley, Blake, Wordsworth also influenced the Doors and Black Sabbath. As part of its focus on nature, romanticism is nationalistic. Why? Nationalism preserves uniqueness (difference) over sameness; without nationalism, everyone gets bred into one type of person ("the grey race," as some say). Nationalism is not racism; racism is universal preference for one race over all others, where nationalism is preference for each race in its own country. A racist would exterminate all black people, but a nationalist would remove all white people from Africa and all black people from Europe. I don't see the black metal people as hateful racists like the moronic degenerates from GBK (except their vocalist Rich, from Vinland Winds, who is a good guy in my book even if I don't agree with him on everything). Racists try to prove that black people/Jews/Mexicans suck by showing you intelligence charts, skull shapes, crime stats, whatever; my point as a nationalist is that I don't care to pass judgments on other people. Intelligence isn't OBJECTIVELY proven as a beneficial trait, nor is lack of what we call criminal behavior. These are things (in philosophical terms) specific to our tribe. Nationalists say each tribe should have its own space, and be defined ethnically, culturally and linguistically. That's a logical "and" between those, so without all three, a person does not qualify, e.g. an ethnic German who behaves according to some other cultural standard would be excluded as would a Zulu who behaves according to a German cultural standard. Nationalism is a Darwinistic, localized view of populations as organic entities. SO what I'm trying to say here is... You can be a nationalist without getting involved in what I see as "hate." I think both neo-Nazis and anti-Nazis are fucked up, hateful, dysfunctional people. I don't have a problem with trueblood National Socialists; I'm not fond at all of "white nationalism" and "white supremacy" as these are crowdist genres (revenge of the masses against the elites). I don't think black metal is inherently hateful, and I don't think it's inherently Nazi, but I know that it's not capable of being anti-Nazi. It is inherently nationalist. Americans often don't understand nationalism because they are of mixed European and other tribes. Those people's opinions are irrelevant however as it is selfishness that motivates them to call nationalism racism, hate, etc. " original thread |
| _______________________________ [Feb 15,2006 10:06pm - CNV ""] I have 2 questions Why do you keep pigeon holing black metal into one specific ideal? Do you really think anyone gives a fuck? |
| _____________________________________ [Feb 15,2006 11:23pm - infoterror ""] If no one gives a fuck, YHBT. |
| _______________________________________ [Feb 15,2006 11:30pm - the_reverend ""] "...and one planet for the deer..." I think of that whenever I here the word "nationalism" now. thank you south park. may your marklars grow marklar and marklar. |
| ___________________________________________ [Feb 15,2006 11:35pm - davefromthegrave ""] infoterror said:If no one gives a fuck, YHBT. anybody here know what he just said? |
| _______________________________________ [Feb 15,2006 11:40pm - the_reverend ""] its an ancient irc thing... you have been trolled. I only know that cause of cruising dail/ef/under/shadow/usenet |
| _________________________________________________ [Feb 15,2006 11:41pm - whiskey_weed_and_women ""] : Can we start a band called vaginal saucepan? : we can tour with satyricon. |
| _____________________________________ [Feb 16,2006 12:59am - infoterror ""] the_reverend said:"...and one planet for the deer..." Deer are smarter than most humans... |
| ______________________________ [Feb 16,2006 3:15am - CNV ""] Info terror, you never answered my question about how you keep pigeon holing the genre into one ideal This is simply not the case |
| _____________________________________ [Feb 16,2006 4:10am - ArmageddAnn ""] the_reverend said:"...and one planet for the deer..." I think of that whenever I here the word "nationalism" now. thank you south park. may your marklars grow marklar and marklar. Agreed, this had been unfortunately forgotten by mankind. |
| _______________________________________________ [Feb 16,2006 8:13am - slowlypeelingtheflesh ""] shut up |
| ______________________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 12:51am - shut the christ up ""] yes, please, everyone shut the fuck up. nationalism sucks, south park sucks, and political beliefs in metals suck |
| ________________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 1:02am - ryanfromhbbsi ""] infoterror said:the_reverend said:"...and one planet for the deer..." Deer are smarter than most humans... thats why they're on my plate huh |
| ____________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 1:40am - infoterror ""] CNV said:Info terror, you never answered my question about how you keep pigeon holing the genre into one ideal This is simply not the case Genres are unified by beliefs. You insisting otherwise has zero effect on this. |
| ______________________________ [Feb 17,2006 5:09am - CNV ""] infoterror said:CNV said:Info terror, you never answered my question about how you keep pigeon holing the genre into one ideal This is simply not the case Genres are unified by beliefs. You insisting otherwise has zero effect on this. Oh yeah you fucking pseuso intellectual? Now it is my turn to burn your bullshit to the ground... Black Metal started off as art that was based on Satanism and Occultism (NOT Nationalism). It embodied the dark side of human nature and not some fucking romanticized fantasty world you live in... Romanticism exists on a multitude of levels... You can find it everywhere, not just European culture. Jesus is romanticized, the Italian mafia is romanticized, cowboy culture is romanticized, Vikings are romanticized, Nazism is romanticized, Jews are romanticized, Materialist gangster rap bulllshit is fucking romanticized... Romantisism is all well and good. It is a building block for art and culture but you trying to say every fucking black metal band is nationalistic exposes you for what you really are- a fucking pathetic clown that gets no attention so you post a bunch of pseuso intellectual rants in order to try and fill your deficient ego...... Let me let you in on a little secret you fucking wimp, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK!!! You want to turn the tides of of social and political power structures? You are doing a horrible job of it... If you really want nationalism to prevail you would let everything spiral downward so all the fucking sissies in this country no longer were comfortable and their precious dollar bills did not amount to jack shit!!! Then they would have to wake up but you know what? They do not deservere that fucking privledge... They deserve what is coming for them, A fiery fucking Grave!!! FUCK YOU |
| ____________________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 1:38pm - frey von volatile ""] ryanfromhbbsi said:infoterror said:the_reverend said:"...and one planet for the deer..." Deer are smarter than most humans... thats why they're on my plate huh hahahaha |
| ________________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 2:37pm - ryanfromhbbsi ""] CNV said:Oh yeah you fucking pseuso intellectual? Now it is my turn to burn your bullshit to the ground... Black Metal started off as art that was based on Satanism and Occultism (NOT Nationalism). It embodied the dark side of human nature and not some fucking romanticized fantasty world you live in... Romanticism exists on a multitude of levels... You can find it everywhere, not just European culture. Jesus is romanticized, the Italian mafia is romanticized, cowboy culture is romanticized, Vikings are romanticized, Nazism is romanticized, Jews are romanticized, Materialist gangster rap bulllshit is fucking romanticized... Romantisism is all well and good. It is a building block for art and culture but you trying to say every fucking black metal band is nationalistic exposes you for what you really are- a fucking pathetic clown that gets no attention so you post a bunch of pseuso intellectual rants in order to try and fill your deficient ego...... Let me let you in on a little secret you fucking wimp, NO ONE GIVES A FUCK!!! You want to turn the tides of of social and political power structures? You are doing a horrible job of it... If you really want nationalism to prevail you would let everything spiral downward so all the fucking sissies in this country no longer were comfortable and their precious dollar bills did not amount to jack shit!!! Then they would have to wake up but you know what? They do not deservere that fucking privledge... They deserve what is coming for them, A fiery fucking Grave!!! FUCK YOU no one mentioned romancing hot asians |
| ____________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 5:34pm - infoterror ""] CNV said:Oh yeah you fucking pseuso intellectual? Now it is my turn to burn your bullshit to the ground... Black Metal started off as art that was based on Satanism and Occultism (NOT Nationalism). Idiot, the history of the occult in Western art IS Romanticism...! That's the genre from which Poe, Lovecraft, Shelley, etc. descended. |
| ____________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 5:34pm - infoterror ""] shut the christ up said:yes, please, everyone shut the fuck up. nationalism sucks, south park sucks, and political beliefs in metals suck Yeah, just stop thinking. Thinking divides people. Finding answers divides people. Let's just die out like the stupid humble sheep we are. YOU MORON |
| ____________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 5:51pm - anonymous ""] infoterror said: Genres are unified by beliefs. what belief unifies Classical Music? Thrash Metal? R&B? Bluegrass? Classic Rock? genres, all... |
| ____________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 6:27pm - infoterror ""] CLASSIC ROCK = INDIVIDUALISM BLUEGRASS = I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GENRE R&B = INDIVIDUALISM THRASH = ANARCHIST EXISTENTIALISM SPEED METAL = INDIVIDUALIST COLLECTIVISM I DON'T KNOW WHAT "THRASH METAL" IS. AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, THAT'S A NONSENSE TERM. |
| ______________________________ [Feb 17,2006 6:59pm - CNV ""] infoterror said:CNV said:Oh yeah you fucking pseuso intellectual? Now it is my turn to burn your bullshit to the ground... Black Metal started off as art that was based on Satanism and Occultism (NOT Nationalism). Idiot, the history of the occult in Western art IS Romanticism...! That's the genre from which Poe, Lovecraft, Shelley, etc. descended. I am not talking about western art.... I am talking about the genre you keep pigeon holing into one ideal. What is so romantic or nationalistic about black metal bands like Mayhem- Pure Fucking Armageddon or bands like Beherit, Blasphemy, Von, etc? Idiot |
| ____________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 7:12pm - infoterror ""] CNV said:I am not talking about western art.... I am talking about the genre you keep pigeon holing into one ideal. What is so romantic or nationalistic about black metal bands like Mayhem- Pure Fucking Armageddon or bands like Beherit, Blasphemy, Von, etc? BEHERIT? MAYHEM? ARE YOU SURE YOU WANTED TO MENTION THOSE? BIG NORWEGIAN AND NAZI FLAGS IN PRACTICE SPACES? VEILED ALLUSIONS ON ELECTRONIC ALBUMS? VON - WHO CARES BLASPHEMY - WHO CARES |
| ______________________________ [Feb 17,2006 7:22pm - CNV ""] infoterror said:CNV said:I am not talking about western art.... I am talking about the genre you keep pigeon holing into one ideal. What is so romantic or nationalistic about black metal bands like Mayhem- Pure Fucking Armageddon or bands like Beherit, Blasphemy, Von, etc? BEHERIT? MAYHEM? ARE YOU SURE YOU WANTED TO MENTION THOSE? BIG NORWEGIAN AND NAZI FLAGS IN PRACTICE SPACES? VEILED ALLUSIONS ON ELECTRONIC ALBUMS? VON - WHO CARES BLASPHEMY - WHO CARES You-Who Cares How can you consider Euronymous a Nationalist when he says he is a communist? Marilyn Manson had swastika flags on stage when they played too so I guess that makes them a nationalist band You are the biggest fucking tool around that is why you post here instead of the Fmp board because you got laughed off of it One minute your a nihilist and the next your a nationalist with negro blood, Bwahahahahahaha!!! Not every black band is nationalist is the point I was trying to make Like most of your essays this one is also way off based and false |
| ______________________________ [Feb 17,2006 7:32pm - CNV ""] Alot of these black metal bands use swastikas as a shock effect The aesthetic causes scares the shit out of people |
| ______________________________ [Feb 17,2006 7:48pm - CNV ""] When you talk bout mans culture, all I have to ask is what man and which culture? There is no culture today except a money culture, a consumer culture. True culture is the outward manifestation of mans inner being. It represents the visible, tangible expression of his truest soul oriented values. Where is that today? Its nearly extinct, except for a few isolated outposts that you really have to search to find. As for what to week out or cultivate I would obviously say cultivate whatever empowers you personally, whatever minimizes any influence exercised over you by the dominant culture. Weed out whatever hinders you or whatever threatens in any way to subvert your instinct. Of course, this is all on a personal level, because thats where personal power begins, right? In your own life. The present world of humanity is way beyond the point where it could be redeemed by weeding out certain aspects and fixing up certain others. The only cure for it is to let it die a natural death, just as anything that unnatural is forced to do within the context of nature. (Boyd Rice) This is the ideal that creates the best art in my view |
| ____________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 8:34pm - infoterror ""] You failed to make your point, mainly because you didn't achieve relevance. Not every black metal band understands black metal as a genre; most are pathetic imitators (Dimmu Borgir, Cradle, etc). Who cares what they think? I care what the smart people think. And they're all romanticists (including nationalism). And if you cannot figure out the connections between that and nihilism, well, I'm sorry for your inferior genetics ;) |
| _____________________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 9:14pm - shut the christ up ""] infoterror said:shut the christ up said:yes, please, everyone shut the fuck up. nationalism sucks, south park sucks, and political beliefs in metals suck Yeah, just stop thinking. Thinking divides people. Finding answers divides people. Let's just die out like the stupid humble sheep we are. YOU MORON dude who the fuck do you think you are? some kind of scholar? you're probably just some loser living in your mom's basement with nothing better to do than think about this stupid fucking nationalist bullshit. Get a fucking life |
| _____________________________________________ [Feb 17,2006 9:21pm - shut the christ up ""] infoterror said:You failed to make your point, mainly because you didn't achieve relevance. Not every black metal band understands black metal as a genre; most are pathetic imitators (Dimmu Borgir, Cradle, etc). Who cares what they think? I care what the smart people think. And they're all romanticists (including nationalism). And if you cannot figure out the connections between that and nihilism, well, I'm sorry for your inferior genetics ;) and who ther fuck are these "smart people"?? last time i checked the members of mayhem and beherit weren't know for they're genius minds |
| ______________________________ [Feb 17,2006 9:26pm - CNV ""] Bwahahahah!!! All heil Infoterror, the nationalist with negro blood and frizzy hair!!! Yeah you really hit the genetic jack pot buddy I made my point, clearly there are black metal bands that are not nationalists or national socialist What about fascist ideals in black metal?(Angel Corpse, Order From Chaos, etc) Are they not relevant too because Info faggot says so? Cmon, enlighten us oh mighty one What exactly constitutes bands that are irrelevant? Anything you disagree with? What about Laveyan Black metal bands like Acheron and Kult Ov Azazel? Are satanic bm bands that have Darwinian theories not relevent as well? Clearly, your a genius that will someday take over the world so I have to know these things, for when the Infoterror empire takes form I will know exactly how to act and think... |
| ______________________________ [Feb 18,2006 4:50am - CNV ""] Cmon, can any of you argue with me or what? |
| _____________________________________________ [Feb 19,2006 1:54am - Shut the christ up ""] no man, im with you 100% |
| __________________________________________ [Feb 19,2006 1:59am - matt_forherblood ""] This whole thread shows why black metal sucks and is rezerved for white geeks who are mad because they got their asses kicked in high school. |
| ________________________________________________ [Feb 19,2006 2:33am - whiskey_weed_and_women ""] matt_forherblood said:This whole thread shows why black metal sucks and is rezerved for white geeks who are mad because they got their asses kicked in high school. are you speaking from expierence |
| ______________________________________ [Feb 19,2006 2:45am - Joshtruction ""] This shits funny. I also agree with CNV 100% and think Inferiorterror is a moron. |
| ______________________________________ [Feb 19,2006 10:37am - ArmageddAnn ""] infoterror said:CLASSIC ROCK = INDIVIDUALISM BLUEGRASS = I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GENRE R&B = INDIVIDUALISM THRASH = ANARCHIST EXISTENTIALISM SPEED METAL = INDIVIDUALIST COLLECTIVISM I DON'T KNOW WHAT "THRASH METAL" IS. AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, THAT'S A NONSENSE TERM. I usually disagree with CNV, but I have to agree with him on the fact that infoterror is a dumass just for the shit above. I just cant believe I just read this "I don't know what Thrash Metal is. As far as I can tell, that's a nonsense term". This is the dumbest shit I've heard in a long time. |
| _________________________________ [Feb 19,2006 6:10pm - Doomkid ""] CNY said:How can you consider Euronymous a Nationalist when he says he is a communist? Good position in general, but have ever heard of a man named Ho Chi Minh? infoterror said:Genres are unified by beliefs. You insisting otherwise has zero effect on this. Genres are not unified by beliefs, when genres are created they have a unique set of ideals that are pushing its creation. Over time as the genre evolves and other elements get incorporated the core ideals are diluted. Today therefore classifying a genre because of its "beliefs" is meaningless, ie- Matisyahu, Christian hardcore, etc. |
| ______________________________ [Feb 19,2006 6:30pm - CNV ""] [img] |
| ______________________________ [Feb 19,2006 6:31pm - CNV ""] [img] |
| ______________________________ [Feb 19,2006 6:33pm - CNV ""] That should clear things up about Mayhem being a nationalist band |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 2,2006 5:58pm - thirdknuckle ""] infoterror said:CLASSIC ROCK = INDIVIDUALISM BLUEGRASS = I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GENRE R&B = INDIVIDUALISM THRASH = ANARCHIST EXISTENTIALISM SPEED METAL = INDIVIDUALIST COLLECTIVISM I DON'T KNOW WHAT "THRASH METAL" IS. AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, THAT'S A NONSENSE TERM. but you recognize 'THRASH' and 'SPEED METAL' (see your post, above)... you talk alot of nonsense yourself, big guy. elitist, pseudo-intellectual BS that doesn't stand up to scrutiny very well. and you defend your ideas very poorly. "R&B = INDIVIDUALISM"???? |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 2,2006 6:31pm - NECTrepresent ""] r&b = pissing on induviduals |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 2,2006 7:01pm - infoterror ""] Doomkid said:Genres are not unified by beliefs, when genres are created they have a unique set of ideals that are pushing its creation. Over time as the genre evolves and other elements get incorporated the core ideals are diluted. Today therefore classifying a genre because of its "beliefs" is meaningless, ie- Matisyahu, Christian hardcore, etc. >> We're saying the same thing, using different terms. Beliefs = ideals; I'm not talking strictly about political/religious but "worldview" class beliefs. |
| _____________________________________________ [Mar 2,2006 7:07pm - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] The holocaust would have had my support if Hitler devoted all of his time and energy to torturing and gassing Matisyahu. I don't have a problem with other Jews. |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 2,2006 10:56pm - infoterror ""] thirdknuckle said:infoterror said:CLASSIC ROCK = INDIVIDUALISM BLUEGRASS = I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GENRE R&B = INDIVIDUALISM THRASH = ANARCHIST EXISTENTIALISM SPEED METAL = INDIVIDUALIST COLLECTIVISM I DON'T KNOW WHAT "THRASH METAL" IS. AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, THAT'S A NONSENSE TERM. but you recognize 'THRASH' and 'SPEED METAL' (see your post, above)... you talk alot of nonsense yourself, big guy. elitist, pseudo-intellectual BS that doesn't stand up to scrutiny very well. and you defend your ideas very poorly. "R&B = INDIVIDUALISM"???? THRASH IS A GENRE SO IS SPEED METAL THRASH METAL SOUNDS LIKE A PRODUCT NAME R&B = FETAL REJECTION OF CONTEXT FOR PERSONAL GRATIFICATION HAVE SOMEONE LOOK UP THE WORDS FOR YOU, FUTURE TURNIP-PICKER. |
| ________________________________________ [Mar 3,2006 12:03am - NECTrepresent ""] ArmageddAnn said: I just cant believe I just read this "I don't know what Thrash Metal is. you ARE thrashmetal honey :nuke: |