Triggered Drums?[views:8525][posts:47]_________________________________ [Oct 13,2003 11:36pm - retzam ""] People may think that I am pretty stupid for asking this question, but what does it mean when drums are "triggered". I realize that people seem to look down on this, but I have no clue what it means. Actually, I little while back someone mentioned them in regard to Hellhammer and I think my response was kind of ignorant because I completely disregarded that statement. |
| __________________________________________ [Oct 13,2003 11:47pm - attendmyrequiem ""] instead of an acoustic drums sound it's a electric sound that never changes. drummers use them so the drums stand out in studio settings. I don't frown on the use of them, since most bands use them now adays. They sound amazing if they are used correctly. |
| ________________________________________ [Oct 13,2003 11:50pm - DeOdiumMortis ""] Drum triggers are premade drum sounds that are hooked up to a real drum set so their are uniform sounds coming out of the drum. No matter where he hits the snare head or how soft or hard he stomps on the kick they always sound the same. They might make some that can change velocity but I don't know either way as fact. I think a lot of people don't understand triggers. They don't make the drummer faster than he really is or anything, just make the drums sound different. Or less different to be a mook about it. |
| _________________________________ [Oct 13,2003 11:54pm - retzam ""] Oh ok, dat's coo, dat's fresh. However, if I were at a Mayhem concert then I would want to hear Hellhammer's drums, not his funky electric molest box. Whatever though, I fresh. |
| _______________________________________ [Oct 13,2003 11:54pm - the_reverend ""] the triggers on the drums on the new decrepit birth sound like shit. it's way way way too over triggered sounding. |
| ________________________________________ [Oct 13,2003 11:55pm - DeOdiumMortis ""] Hellhammer's probably sounded like crap then if someone's talking crap about them. The best triggered drums sound like they're not triggered. If Hellhammer used the same trigger sounds at that show that he used when he came around with Kovenant a few years ago then they definetely sounded of the poop variety. |
| _________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 12:03am - retzam ""] I like The Kovenant sound, but then again I havnt heard them live. Well I must run, the show is coming on soon. |
| _________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 12:08am - retzam ""] Or I am just going to listen on the computer. |
| ______________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 12:26am - BabysBreath ""] the new decrpit birth album may have triggers, but i thik the sound is great. Did they not have a session drummer for that though? i mean the drums are almost too perfect? anyone know? |
| __________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 1:00am - v1olenc3 ""] i think drummers that use triggers at small shows with shitty PA's are gay. But for recording i think if used properly they can add alot. alot of cd's you buy (or in toms case, steal) have triggered drums. |
| ____________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 1:17am - BornSoVile ""] Another example of poor drum trigger production is Krisiun - Ageless Venemous. |
| ______________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 1:30am - the_reverend ""] not the new cd though. it's tight. |
| __________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 1:33am - v1olenc3 ""] Wasn't Ageless mixed and recorded by the dudes in krisiun??? that might explain why it sounds like shit. |
| _________________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 3:39am - attendmyrequiem ""] check out the berzerker for real sounding triggers. |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 8:07am - RustedAngel ""] v1olenc3 said:Wasn't Ageless mixed and recorded by the dudes in krisiun??? that might explain why it sounds like shit. ageless venomous doesn't sound like shit, you're all gay. I'm pretty sure they did that on purpose. YOU CAN hear everything going on during that album, every note picked. Every drum hit, and I fucking love it. |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 8:08am - RustedAngel ""] attendmyrequiem said:check out the berzerker for real sounding triggers. you can make a trigger sound like a cat's meow if you want. There is no REAL sounding trigger. fuck the berzerker, they took up origin's settime. |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 11:35am - v1olenc3 ""] tom there is no 2 ways around it, ageless sounds like shit. if they happened to stumble accross some earth shattering recording technique that redefines the clarity of all the instruments, don't you think more bands would have utilized this?? Don't get me wrong, it's a killer album, but it just has a flat sound, there are hardly any dynamics to it. It's not a full sounding cd, Considering they are on CM i'm sure they have the $$ to come up with a better recording. It was a gimmick to let them record and mix that cd. If all my cd's sounded like ageless, i'd shoot myself. |
| _________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 12:09pm - retzam ""] attendmyrequiem said:check out the berzerker for real sounding triggers. Um, I have never seen the berzerker, but a few friends of mine saw them at the palladium a few months back (I believe with Dark Tranquility and SYL) and they said they were laughing there asses off because the bass drum sounded like the noise a laser beam makes in an 8-bit Nintendo game. |
| ______________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 12:48pm - RustedAngel ""] v1olenc3 said:tom there is no 2 ways around it, ageless sounds like shit. if they happened to stumble accross some earth shattering recording technique that redefines the clarity of all the instruments, don't you think more bands would have utilized this?? Don't get me wrong, it's a killer album, but it just has a flat sound, there are hardly any dynamics to it. It's not a full sounding cd, Considering they are on CM i'm sure they have the $$ to come up with a better recording. It was a gimmick to let them record and mix that cd. If all my cd's sounded like ageless, i'd shoot myself. it's definetly different and I love it. I don't know if you've just been listening to gay acacia strain side projects and poison the well that you're not comparing ageless with most other death metal albums where if the part of the song there is a lot going on you can't hear the guitar riff because of too many drums and vocals. On ageless you can. But more bands wouldn't utilize this because it's too different from a mix with a lot of depth to it. you want a bad sounding cd, listen to nevermore - enemies of reality |
| __________________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 1:17pm - thegreatspaldino ""] RustedAngel said: ageless venomous doesn't sound like shit, you're all gay. yeah... i dig the sound on Ageless Venomous... not a lot off people like the bass drum sound though. |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 1:32pm - RustedAngel ""] thegreatspaldino said:RustedAngel said: ageless venomous doesn't sound like shit, you're all gay. yeah... i dig the sound on Ageless Venomous... not a lot off people like the bass drum sound though. purely their opinion. i'm gonna go ahead and say that the ageless kick sound is the best I've ever heard in my entire life. go back to listening to fuckin bright eyes. fags. another shitty recording (emperor - wrath of the tyrants, and people fuckin love the raw sound of it)... makes ageless seem like it was mixed by andy wallace and ross robinson. |
| ______________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 1:35pm - the_reverend ""] *cries and runs off to listen to some bright eyes* |
| __________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 7:34pm - Diavola ""] Usually larger touring acts use them to have more control over the drum's live mix. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=03...2506723/g=perc/search/c=4776/c=4777 |
| ____________________________________ [Oct 14,2003 7:54pm - BornSoVile ""] I'll throw in two more cents. Ageless, at the time, was their tightiest recording ever. Personally some of my favorite Krisiun songs are on it like the title track(hehe, yeah even with the kick fills). The album doesn't flow as nicely as Conquorers, but it's more of an intriguing listen. Don't get me wrong, Krisiun could come up to me the next time they come to Worcester (hopefully soon), and say "hey man we got a piece of shit in a shoebox for you, how much you want to buy it for?" and I'd still buy it. But the album above all other Krisiun albums is so distinctively easy to spot out, as soon as you hear the over bearing, thickly muddled kicks. This album was produced by Krisiun and Tchelo Martins and engineered by Philip Colodetti. Works of Carnage - Album of the Year! |
| __________________________________ [Oct 15,2003 2:16am - v1olenc3 ""] again if all my cd's sounded like ageless, i would shoot myself, only after i find a huge black dude to sodomize tom.:bartmoon::whipper: |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 30,2003 3:57pm - Mike FOD ""] BabysBreath said:the new decrpit birth album may have triggers, but i thik the sound is great. Did they not have a session drummer for that though? i mean the drums are almost too perfect? anyone know? Tim Yeung. He was also pretty young when he first played for Hate Eternal. I believe they call him "the machine" |
| __________________________________ [Oct 30,2003 7:10pm - HiImPaul ""] john engnam is better, same with chad walls. |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 31,2003 11:32am - litacore ""] my drummer calls 'em typewriters. I'm not against them, but I think the Berzerker cheat |
| ___________________________________________ [Oct 31,2003 11:37am - thegreatspaldino ""] litacore said:my drummer calls 'em typewriters. I'm not against them, but I think the Berzerker cheat you cant really cheat on drums. triggers just make everything more audible and consistent. its still the drummer playing and all. i mean whatever, if a drummer doesnt like em then fine, he/she doesnt have to use them live but on a CD, especially now-a-days, he/she HAS to use them in order to have a great recording (unless that said drummer is a fucking machine and has the endurance of 20 Lance Armstrongs, in which case he/she doesnt need em). they just make everything sound the same and consistent. thats all they do. (also about absolutley having to have them on a recording... that is for extreme metal... jazz and blues and even stoner metal or rock bands dont really need em because they arent really playing fast and can keep up a consistent snare and bass drum sound) |
| ______________________________________ [Oct 31,2003 11:43am - RustedAngel ""] litacore said:my drummer calls 'em typewriters. I'm not against them, but I think the Berzerker cheat well, they are not straight up death metal... they are like electronic / death metal. he's a good drummer, but not as fast as the effects he has on the triggers make him sound. |
| ________________________________ [Oct 31,2003 12:33pm - Hoser ""] You wanna hear triggered drums as they should be....listen to Fear Factory "Demanufacture". Raymond Hererra is a fucking AWESOME drummer. Thats how they should sound. |
| __________________________________________ [Oct 31,2003 1:00pm - thegreatspaldino ""] he is a good drummer.. but some of the songs are recorded in pieces. like he will record the bass drum only first... and then the snare and cymbals after. like securitron on obselete and any other song that has a bazillion mph doulbe bass in it like messiah. kinda takes away from it... but he is still good none-the-less. i agree... demanfactures triggers are nice and subtle |
| ________________________________________ [Oct 31,2003 5:06pm - Ninkaszi@work ""] I don't know how I feel about triggers. I think a good drummer doesn't really need them, but they can do whatever. I hate it when drum triggers sound like a drum machine. Perfect example of awesome drums is the performance on December Wolves "Completely Dehumanized". Such an underrated band. |
| _________________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 4:07pm - tchelo martins ""] man, here is tchelo martins from brazil. on this discussion about ageless venomous i am not worry. its a mix section mistake that we commited. well this is the life. but so many guys adore this cd... krisiun gonna make many news releases for all of you, guys. peace. |
| ______________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 4:20pm - the_reverend ""] obrigado |
| _____________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 4:22pm - Josh_Martin ""] I think triggers are cheating. Part of being a good drummer is being able to hit hard. Triggers make it so you can blast like a limp wristed cake decorator and sound like Mick Harris on speed. |
| __________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 4:28pm - goratory ""] i love when people that are being talked about, that you would never figure would ever read this stuff, find the threads and post. When i get drunk and bored, i search Goratory under google and start finding obscure message boards where people talk shit about our music and then post just to make them feel bad, hahaha. |
| ______________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 4:29pm - swamplorddvm ""] hhhmmmm well true. It is KINDA cheating. at least place the mic real close to the snare. |
| __________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 4:36pm - goratory ""] Josh_Martin said:I think triggers are cheating. Part of being a good drummer is being able to hit hard. Triggers make it so you can blast like a limp wristed cake decorator and sound like Mick Harris on speed. If that comment was true, it would be the same as saying every drummer using Axis is a horrible drummer because you have to hit your pedals twice as hard using pearl. (i like Axis and am not talking bad just using it as an example) I never met a drummer that used triggers because he sucked. Drummers use triggers for the sound they get out of them. We play half of our shows without them and all you get is a different sound, not a lack of clarity because of not hitting hard. All they are is an option of sound. |
| _____________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 4:49pm - Josh_Martin ""] I'm not gonna start calling people out but I have met drummers in very well known bands who use snare triggers and bass triggers to cover up weak hits that would be inaudible without triggers. This only applies to blast beats. I don't know how you use triggers but one use for them is that every hit sounds exactly the same, no matter how weakly you hit it. That is cheating. |
| __________________________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 4:49pm - Goratory/Pillory_Drummer ""] Also, when u get to certain speeds with your feet, there are physical limitations with how much u can move your feet, and thus how much power and sound u can generate through your kick pedal and through the drum. Trigger, or Sound Replacement are used with so many styles of music, all nu metal and heavy metal, even bands like Staind Trigger. It's not like the drumemr from Staind can't hit the drum hard consistantly. For me, it's part of my sound and part of my playing. If i'm going to have speed, i want to have clarity as well. So with Triggers i have that. When playing with such heavy guitar sounds, you need them to help get attack through. |
| _____________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 4:51pm - Josh_Martin ""] I'm not familar with Staind other than knowing how many mall fags like them. I really doubt a band like that gets fast enough where its tough to hit hard. |
| __________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 5:42pm - Kalopsia ""] goratory said:Josh_Martin said:I think triggers are cheating. Part of being a good drummer is being able to hit hard. Triggers make it so you can blast like a limp wristed cake decorator and sound like Mick Harris on speed. If that comment was true, it would be the same as saying every drummer using Axis is a horrible drummer because you have to hit your pedals twice as hard using pearl. (i like Axis and am not talking bad just using it as an example) I never met a drummer that used triggers because he sucked. Drummers use triggers for the sound they get out of them. We play half of our shows without them and all you get is a different sound, not a lack of clarity because of not hitting hard. All they are is an option of sound. i agree, my drummer fuckin beats down on his drums (especially lately) and he only triggers his bass drums so that they come out clearer through the PA. if you listen to us at practice, he never gets softer the more he plays |
| ____________________________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 6:51pm - menstrual_sweatpants_disco ""] or you can just glue a piece of steal to your head and have a ridiculously stupid sounding bass drum like me. haha. Lately though, I've been trying to be more consistent.. feet and hands, only playing as loud during a groove as I can during a blast. I've been noticing a lot of people will beat the fuck out of their snare during grooves and then you won't hear anything during a blast. They might as well just put down that stick and take a drink of water. Oh.. this is especially silly during sound checks in actual clubs.. They'll ask for snare drum and someone will hit the thing as loud as they can. Then they play blasts through most of their songs and you can't hear anything. Ditto for the feet. |
| ________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 7:05pm - George ""] triggers are viewed as cheating because you dont have to hit hard to get volume. if you're a drummer like nick barker or something, obvioulsy using triggers isn't a big deal, cause you're just trying to get your sound through. but alot of metal drummers do what i like to call the "metal tap". They rely on triggers to sound good, they HAVE to trigger their snare cause they have no volume other wise. ever see the drummer from unbrella? yeah. you're going to sound like shit if you can't play your blast beats loud enough, and if you use triggers, you will play a show where it sounds like shit because of the pa and you can't do anything about it. kick drum is debatable, because if you're only triggering that, it can be alright, since volume doesn't really vary with your kick. |
| ________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 7:08pm - Hooker ""] I like the dude from the crown. he sounds a bit sloppier but it's just balls out all the time. he's inhuman |
| ____________________________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 7:19pm - menstrual_sweatpants_disco ""] I was pretty impressed with Talley when misery index played obrien's. Usually I'll see a drummer I like play a small club like that and they sound like shit without all the miking or compression on recordings, but Talley was hitting pretty hard and playing smooth. He actually did have triggers on his bass drums, but the PA kept cutting out and you could hear that he didn't need them. |
| ________________________________________ [Sep 28,2004 7:48pm - Enemyofdastate ""] Triggers are used for consistency, if youve played live before every drummer knows the worst mix you always get is the kick drums so I use kick triggers ONLY because then I dont have to worry about the idiot sound guy fucking my sound up. and a trigger is NOT an electric sound, when you trigger you are actually using a SAMPLE bass drum sound that runs thru a brain, thus giving you the consistency of a hard hit all the time giving people the option of not hitting as hard and still getting the same volume as if you were pounding it out. In my case, i just use the triggers for consistency of sound, there is no way i can tap a drum, thats retarded. Drums are a PERCUSSION instrument and that said You must POUND on them not tap. Some might see it as cheating but thats all on the type of style the drummer has. |