why does solid state suck? can anyone sum it up?[views:6224][posts:47]_____________________________________________ [Oct 15,2008 10:41pm - chainsaw lobotomy ""] why do tube amps crush solid state amps 98% of the time? is there an easy explanation or is it a little complex? please, take this time to FULLY enlighten me. :bow: |
| __________________________________ [Oct 15,2008 11:32pm - Martins ""] Because tubes > life. |
| _______________________________________ [Oct 15,2008 11:45pm - goatcatalyst ""] Solid state = twinks of the amp kingdom |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 15,2008 11:49pm - brian_dc ""] I want to have sex with so many tube amps right now |
| _____________________________________________ [Oct 15,2008 11:55pm - chainsaw lobotomy ""] i looked it up and it has something to do with "soft clipping". anyone? anyone?? |
| ____________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 12:05am - metalguy ""] Tubes create a round "surface" for the sounds that an instrument makes. Things tend to sound more deep and full. Solid state amplifiers sound "flat" and "brittle". These things don't make either one better, it is completely subjective. I think Sparky (Dying Fetus/ Misery Index) uses a solid state amp. |
| _______________________________ [Oct 16,2008 12:15am - eric ""] hard clipping (solid state transistors) brings out the odd order harmonics, soft clipping (valve) brings out even order harmonics, which are much more pleasing to the ear. for example, a square wave is a frequency with the 3rd, 5th,, 7th, 9th, etc...harmonic added to it. as you keep adding the odd harmonics the wave gets chopped off more harshly. this is the reason digital clipping sounds like utter assholes. |
| ____________________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 12:24am - FuckIsMySignature ""] i like solid states for a razor sharp distortion sound (line 6 for example). but for an clean or bluesy type of full sound i'd take tubes anyday. the other problem with tubes is the maintenance factor - tubes are easily subject to damage and need for replacement which can be irritating for far away shows or touring. |
| _______________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 12:49am - Bloodsoaked ""] I use a Crate GX-130 (Solid State) and I love it. I do think Dying Fetus uses Solid State as well...Ampeg VH-140 Guitar Heads. |
| _________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 7:29am - sxealex ""] it doesnt suck |
| __________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 8:26am - brian_dc ""] [Oct 16,2008 12:24am - FuckIsMySignature] i like solid states for a razor sharp distortion sound (line 6 for example). but for an clean or bluesy type of full sound i'd take tubes anyday. the other problem with tubes is the maintenance factor - tubes are easily subject to damage and need for replacement which can be irritating for far away shows or touring. Line 6 is not solid state or tube. It's a modeler. I've yet to find a sound that you can get through a solid state that you can't pull off to some degree with a tube amp. I can't say the same in reverse. That's what it comes down to for me. |
| __________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 8:28am - brian_dc ""] oh. and save your old tubes if you need something in a pinch and have tubes that you just replaced for regular maintenance (i.e. they aren't blown), then you can usually just pop one in if there's an emergency. That said, I've been playing tube amps and shows for almost 8 years now and I've yet to have a tube emergency. Stay on top of them and it's not an issue. |
| __________________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 9:12am - corpus_colostomy ""] dont hate on SS brutha..imagine the simplicity...you dont have any tubes crapping out on you...but conversely, you could still fry the transistor.. unless your tube rig is a mesa (self biasing), you cant really just throw a tube in on the fly in a 'full metal jacket situation.' i could be wrong here.. tubes are more 3-dimensional in their tonal spectrum..and you can experiment with different tubes (that have distinctly different characteristics) in various positions and so tone shaping has the potential to be more complex with a tube head. BUT SS has a great almost naturally scooped vibe, which is nice for DM. think of that classic 90's DM sound. that to me is classic SS for the most part. If you actualy know how to dial tone on a SS then your are in the elite minority... i look at ss and tubes as halves to a greater whole. surely tubes technically have more to offer but they can be super expensive, unreliable, and over sensitive (like most people on this board lol)...ultimately everything depends on preference and application... but then again i have never seen anyone get an SS transistor tatted on the long head of their tricep, so..that might indicate something. oh yeah, the obvious..tubes heads are way more expensive. |
| _______________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 9:29am - thuringwethil ""] aw heck, I used SS for eons but I loooooove my JCM900. |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 9:32am - ouchdrummer ""] well you can just throw tubes in, you would just wanna bias them after the show. They will still work fine if you just throw em in, they just might not last as long if you don't bias them after the show. The bias is like a floodgate that lets in more or less power to em. So it's really a matter of tone preference, and of course the burn out faster if they are biased lower, but you can certainly change the bias after you play the show in which you need said tubes fast. As far as why I like most tube sounds better: I could cut and paste all the tech lingo here that you'd barely understand, but look at it this way. The tube sound manages to cut through other instruments without drowning them out as much, and while still being really easy to make out. It's obviously different for every amp, with what kind of tubes, and how there biased, and whether its a B, A, or AB(true). There is a lot more that goes into tube amps that make them different, but there is a consistent "warm" sound that is hard to define, and that you definately can hear. Not everyone likes tubes better though, a lot of people wanna play real gainy at low volumes, or don't want to distort at real high volume, or whatever. It's all personal preference, i do like tube amps better, but that doesnt go for all of them, there is just so much difference between em that you might like a solidstate WAY more than any particular tube, but not another. You gotta just try em all out. |
| __________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 9:49am - brian_dc ""] what he said about the emergency tube replacement. I should have added more details, but I'm at work and lazy. |
| ______________________________ [Oct 16,2008 4:36pm - blue ""] corpus_colostomy said:unless your tube rig is a mesa (self biasing) you mean fixed bias. if there was such thing as self biasing we'd have lot less tube heads being fried by n00bs. BUT SS has a great almost naturally scooped vibe ? solid state does not suck IMO. SS gets a bad rap becuase most of is cheapo shit that beginners buy, but there are certainly a fair share of shitty tube amps out there as well. |
| _______________________________ [Oct 16,2008 5:35pm - alexc ""] I bought my first tube amp, a JCM900 and I hate it. Not only does it lack the gain I need but it's needed two expensive repairs in the last 2 months. I'm selling it and getting a line 6 spider III. Those things sound phenomenal. |
| ______________________________ [Oct 16,2008 5:38pm - blue ""] i know a lot of people disagree, but fuck the spider heads in the ass. never even heard one that could be heard over a drummer. |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 5:50pm - MadOakDevin ""] solid state sucks because that's what people told you to think. there are some sick solid state marshalls and sunn heads. My Music Man has a solid state input and a tube powered output. It sounds gnarly. |
| ________________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 6:34pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] Bass player, here - I just want to add that I would fully have sex with my SVT head if they made an input for that. |
| __________________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 7:09pm - largefreakatzero ""] blue said:i know a lot of people disagree, but fuck the spider heads in the ass. never even heard one that could be heard over a drummer. I agree, I have no idea why anyone would want a Spider head. You can find used Flextone heads for pretty cheap and the sound is 2897548740x better than the Spiders. I'm actually getting kind of sick of the Line 6 sound anyway. Yeah, they have a ton of gain, and they are loud, but there's always that Line 6 shittiness that never goes away. I will probably join the tube world if I ever get a band going again, but right now I can't justify the expense. |
| _________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 8:14pm - Martins ""] Line 6 Spiders are easily the worst amps out there. There is no way to get good tone out of things. I've had hours and hours and hour and hours to mess with one and I hated it with the most hate ever felt. About switching tubes out: You can switch preamp tubes willynilly (just be sure you put the right type into your phase inverter, mine is a 12AT7 I think). Power tubes need biasing unless your only in class A. Class A/B and Solid State rectifications need to be biased. If you run the tubes cold, they'll last longer but sound worse. Run them hot, they'll sound better but die quick. |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 8:23pm - fishcakes ""] I happen to like tube and solid state amps, even though I have my tube amp sounding just like a ss. |
| __________________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 8:25pm - corpus_colostomy ""] lol. :NEWHORNS: |
| _________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 8:50pm - sxealex ""] you guys are grouping solid state with digital effects... granted digital effects are solid state you cant generalize them like that either. |
| _____________________________________________________ [Oct 16,2008 10:35pm - Niccolai is wicked pissed ""] Nothing wrong with a good SS head. |
| __________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 2:44am - grizloch ""] while we have amp gurus attention... Im looking for a mid-priced tube amp, a guy I know is looking to sell his ampeg vl-502 for $375, I dont know if thats a stellar price or not, but I have heard good things about late 80s ampeg guitar amps, ideally Im looking for a 5150, but I cant find a decent one for within my price range, any thoughts or suggestions? hugs and kisses |
| _________________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 2:55am - ctB0rderpatrol ""] line6 is a gimmick amp company. the XLR outputs on my friends amp are needed because i need a guitar monitor to hear it over my drums. the solid state ampeg that the guitarist in my doom project uses, fuckin rips. it was a 1987 year model. that thing drills my ears when the cab's side is facing me |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 7:58am - fishcakes ""] ampeg=win! |
| ____________________________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 9:56am - Niccolai is wicked pissed ""] grizloch said:while we have amp gurus attention... Im looking for a mid-priced tube amp, a guy I know is looking to sell his ampeg vl-502 for $375, I dont know if thats a stellar price or not, but I have heard good things about late 80s ampeg guitar amps, ideally Im looking for a 5150, but I cant find a decent one for within my price range, any thoughts or suggestions? hugs and kisses I bought my Crate shockwave because it's pre amp is modeled after 80s - early 90s ampegs. the vh-140, ss-150, vts, etc Here's a quote from scott hull of pig destroyer which basically sealed the deal for me and why I bought mine. "I only really recently discovered the wonderment of the old Ampeg solid state guitar heads (ss-150, vh-140c) that bands like Suffocation, Assuck, Eyehategod, Dying Fetus, Death, Misery Index, etc etc have built their sound on and have scoured Ebay picking these things up. Sparky from MI told me he had tracked down some folks at St. Louis Music (the parent company for Crate, Ampeg) who told him they put the same circuitry into a new Crate head. Low and behold, I finally tracked down the only man that should be awarded a nobel prize (of metal) for creating an amp, Thom Kieffer, who told me he put the guts of his VH/SS series ampeg amps into the new Crate GTX3500H head (a 350 watt mother fucker). Steve and Matt sent two right over and I only just used them for our first gigs last weekend. They not only sounded WAY more amazing than anything I'd ever used (I've had Triple Rec, Mesa MKIII, Marshall TSL 100, Sunns), but they were even louder than the 1000 watt GK/Mesa Triaxis configuration I have been using since PD started!" The Crate GT3500h is apparently a VH140 with a Crate logo. I've got two shockwave full stacks now, which cost me a total of about 2 and a half grand. and for that kind of money, if there were a tube amp out there that sounded better to me, I would have bought that instead. |
| ________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 10:00am - aril ""] i'm still searching for a SS or tube for under $400 used. i'm torn, man |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 10:05am - brian_dc ""] just try stuff out. tone is preference. |
| ______________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 10:09am - ouchdrummer ""] I recently did a lot of research on amps and tubes cause my axe man wanted to buy a Genz Benz. (Which is the best guitar amp I have ever played with by the way.) And i found this page, it's not a great read, but i definately understand why tubes work the way they do, and how to maintain em/check em if you think they're fucked. http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton/svetlana/tubeworks.html |
| ___________________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 10:23am - corpus_colostomy ""] brian_dc said: tone is preference. back'd. |
| ________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 10:45am - aril ""] I really enjoyed my Hughes and Ketter. I know their tube stuff is awesome too; not sure if anyone else checked it out. The Switchblade has a real nice tone. |
| ______________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 11:57am - Josh_Martin ""] alexc said:I bought my first tube amp, a JCM900 and I hate it. Not only does it lack the gain I need but it's needed two expensive repairs in the last 2 months. I'm selling it and getting a line 6 spider III. Those things sound phenomenal. You should've got an 800 or an SL-X or even a 2000. 900's never cut it for me. |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 1:33pm - ouchdrummer ""] Josh_Martin said: alexc said:I bought my first tube amp, a JCM900 and I hate it. Not only does it lack the gain I need but it's needed two expensive repairs in the last 2 months. I'm selling it and getting a line 6 spider III. Those things sound phenomenal. You should've got an 800 or an SL-X or even a 2000. 900's never cut it for me. ya, i don't really dig on the 900 sound either. But then again, i despise the spider. Not that it doesn't sound good by itself, but in a band situation with drums it always seemed wanting. |
| __________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 1:40pm - brian_dc ""] 800s are winners |
| _________________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 1:41pm - ancient master ""] I am selling my Peavy Ultra 60 tube head along with my ampeg 4x10 cabinet if anyone is interested |
| _______________________________ [Oct 17,2008 1:55pm - aril ""] might get a deal on a peavey XXL. anyone play these? |
| _____________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 3:01pm - sacreligion ""] my solid state works well for me. abandoned the metal zone/clean channel for the amp distortion and it cuts through pretty well. not as crisp but good definition to double picking with pretty good low-end response and note clarity. it's all a matter of taste and affordability, really. |
| ____________________________________ [Oct 17,2008 3:12pm - Kinslayer ""] I like the Peavy Valve Kings for the price...they are like $400 new and are all tube... |
| _______________________________ [Oct 17,2008 3:16pm - aril ""] ancient master... whats your price? |
| __________________________________________________ [Oct 22,2008 11:32pm - the_taste_of_cigarettes ""] http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/archive/1640 |
| ___________________________________ [Oct 24,2008 2:50am - DJ DEATH ""] Marshall JMP for the win! |