Separation of Church & State..[views:2591][posts:33]_____________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 10:16am - arilliusbm ""] What is everyone's opinion on this idealogy? Frankly, I'm getting sick of seeing church & state together. I'm sick and tired of one man's beliefs mandating everyone elses'. In our modern society, there is absolutely no reason to include any religious faith in government. Our government should remain as neutral as possible and its values and laws should not specifically include any religion. Sanctity of life? Playing God? Fuck people who believe and say such things. |
| _______________________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 10:32am - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] Agreed, I hate it when people type "CHURCH&STATE" A fucking space bar, use it. Ampersands are also pretty queer. |
| ___________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 10:37am - darkwor ""] i was listening to NPR this morning and they had a story of some catholic group fearing that obama would make abortions easier (he said if the freedom of choice act crossed his desk he would sign it). one priest was actually making sense, saying that all they could (and should) do is preach against it and support the women affected by it, and should stop trying to influence politicians. the church should have to adapt to the state, not the other way around. that was one of the foundations america was founded on, because history had already shown that church > state = dark ages. so, tying that into abortion -> follow the religious right -> rape babies, unwanted babies, people who shouldn't breed -> new dark ages |
| _______________________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 10:47am - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] darkwor said: the church should have to adapt to the state, not the other way around. Agreed with most of your post but don't agree with this part; state controlled religion is just as bad as a theocracy. History shows that totalitarian societies always get a huge boost from co opting religious images and institutions to justify suppression of individual liberties. |
| ___________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 10:50am - darkwor ""] i didn't mean that at all, more along the lines of the church should have to realize that abortions are necessary and shut their fucking mouth. |
| _____________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 10:57am - arilliusbm ""] the 'sanctity of life' was a major topic in one of my philosophy classes in college; the teacher did not believe in it, and neither did the author of the book we were reading. But, i remember a huge number of the girls and some of the guys were appalled and so offended by this. they did not understand how life can be seen as not having some sort of divine power behind it. |
| ___________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 11:03am - darkwor ""] where did you go to college? if everyone understood that we're just the product of cells mutating over aeons, i wouldn't have anything to argue about. |
| ___________________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 11:08am - MillenialKingdom ""] I've always agreed that religion and politics should be completely separate entities but since we live in this country that ideal will never come to fruition. I don't really align myself with the ultra-conservative, fundamentalist, right-wing agenda. It's not my game. |
| _______________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 11:10am - the_reverend ""] dakrwor: I was listening to that too. did bobn just make a serious post? any the constitution stipulates a separation of church and state. So there is no question there. the questions sneak in since religion is what a lot of people use to back up their morality. What is easier to say "I'm a christian" or "I believe morally blahblahblah" for 20 minutes. obviously, shorten it. |
| ___________________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 11:14am - MillenialKingdom ""] Saying you're a Christian doesn't make you a moral person. To most people, morals are subjective. |
| ________________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 11:18am - y_ddraig_goch ""] i think people need to have a mix of the two. i believe in evolution and science but i also believe we have something divine, a life force that is a current in all of nature, which gives us more than just random useless life. but i whole-heartedly agree that politicians should never be funded by or influenced by faith. wouldn't it make more sanctity of life sense to try to find cures for diseases with unwanted and or dead life. to create life out of death is quite "holy". so wouldn't stem cell research make more sense, more lives saved, less suffering. |
| ___________________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 11:25am - MillenialKingdom ""] I believe God has a hand in all areas of life and I also think it's good that true Christians are standing up for the truth but I don't believe in Christianity as a political movement or as a lobbyist ploy for some "moral" agenda in government. I'm still on the fence on stem-cell research. |
| ___________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 11:59am - darkwor ""] I've always had a transcendentalist outlook, that word is too rigid, but it comes from within. The personal belief that every human should formulate themselves based on the path they've taken in the past and may in the future, what piece of 'the puzzle' they are. Man-made religion has no answers for me although I'm fascinated by all of them. Stem cell research used for monetary/personal gain or to support certain ideologies is dangerous. That being said, I fully support it. |
| ___________________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 12:05pm - MillenialKingdom ""] I don't believe in any kind of relativism. |
| _______________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 12:21pm - the_reverend ""] I believe in the church of sodomy. they need to teach that stuff in school. |
| _______________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 12:22pm - the_reverend ""] er.. I mean, in god we trust. |
| _______________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 12:25pm - goatcatalyst ""] I SUPPORT THE CHRISTIAN HOLOCAUST. |
| _______________________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 12:27pm - dontlivefastjustdie ""] in god we thrust |
| ___________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 12:39pm - darkwor ""] in god we crust |
| _______________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 12:49pm - the_reverend ""] in grind we crust |
| ____________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 1:15pm - DYA / NLI ""] In Grond we crush. [img] |
| _______________________________ [Nov 12,2008 1:21pm - aril ""] first off, being a father myself, I can somewhat understand why some people would believe in the sanctity of life. having a child is a complete eye-opening experience. but, I am not religious one bit, and I do not belive in anything divine about it. i'm strictly a believer in science; we discover new things everyday and strive for knowledge. as darkwor said, anyone who uses those kind of things for personal gain should not exist. we need humanity to start thinking on a wider scale - a scale in which we recognize ourselves as a species as a whole, regardless of what faith someone is. we need to benefit humanity, and by funding stem cell research, the space program, and various other things, we have the ability to make the human race advance. we are being held back. as y ddraig goch stated, he believes we have something divine. while I do not completely agree, I believe in the power of the human mind and that nature is more "aware" than we think it is. how does this relate to government and church and state? well, fuck off, completely separate the two, and move on in an unbiased manner without faith getting in the way. |
| __________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 1:52pm - darkwor ""] the church is against wide scale progress, their motives behind influencing the government include devaluing science in general by promoting their own values - indirectly affecting the space program, but directly affecting stem cell research, genetic histories, etc. the church feeds on and maintains 'traditional' american religious viewpoints and devalues education and the philosophical "why?". and by fervently supporting anti-abortion laws, they are thinking on quite a short time scale...this has been discussed here many times... |
| _________________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 1:59pm - Conservationist ""] No religion = a religion. |
| __________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 2:00pm - darkwor ""] No religion = not subscribing to any religion. |
| __________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 2:06pm - darkwor ""] or just to please (or spite) you conserv, subscribing to The Church of No Religion |
| ______________________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 2:17pm - dontlivefastjustdie ""] religion has caused more war/death than anything in the history of humanity.... so really its pretty awesome. in crust we thrust |
| ____________________________________ [Nov 12,2008 2:35pm - arilliusbm ""] church being against wide scale progress = fail wide scale progress = getting rid of the church and other religions we need aliens to invade our planet. maybe it will open up some peoples' eyes. |
| _______________________________ [Nov 13,2008 10:51am - Yeti ""] DYA%20/%20NLI said:In Grond we crush. [img] bahahahahahaha this is the best part of the thread. |
| ______________________________________________ [Nov 13,2008 1:20pm - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] arilliusbm said:church being against wide scale progress = fail wide scale progress = getting rid of the church and other religions we need aliens to invade our planet. maybe it will open up some peoples' eyes. BUT WE CAN'T LOOK AT THEM BECAUSE THEY LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THE DEMONS OF OUR MYTHOLOGY...ZOMG COLLECTIVE MEMORY |
| _____________________________ [Nov 13,2008 1:33pm - HTR ""] US Constitution Signers Section: Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth. |
| _____________________________ [Nov 13,2008 1:36pm - HTR ""] dontlivefastjustdie said:religion has caused more war/death than anything in the history of humanity.... so really its pretty awesome. GOVERNMENT has killed more people than anything else in the history of the world. |
| __________________________________ [Nov 13,2008 1:47pm - darkwor ""] HTR said: dontlivefastjustdie said:religion has caused more war/death than anything in the history of humanity.... so really its pretty awesome. GOVERNMENT has killed more people than anything else in the history of the world. arguably in the past they have been the same thing. |
| ______________________________________________ [Nov 13,2008 2:52pm - dontlivefastjustdie ""] darkwor said: HTR said: dontlivefastjustdie said:religion has caused more war/death than anything in the history of humanity.... so really its pretty awesome. GOVERNMENT has killed more people than anything else in the history of the world. arguably in the past they have been the same thing. haha, isn't that the truth! nuke em both! :nuke: |