Drummers: push pull[views:2714][posts:21]________________________________________ [Feb 18,2010 8:46pm - HandinjuryNLI ""] Anyone use the push pull technique? Are you using french or match grip? I finally got a more fluid feel for this w/ match grip but, I watched some vids on youtube and seems like everyone's using french grip for speed. On a un-related note: I have noticed lately that my left hand, when switching from wrist to fingers I sometimes find myself starting in match and slightly switching to french. I think because my left is trying to keep up to my right hand(?) |
| _____________________________ [Feb 18,2010 9:55pm - MP ""] I find myself using primarily finger muscles in French Grip for a lot of high tempo stuff. French grip is technically a form of match grip though, not a separate thing. A lot of guys use the Moeller technique to pull off some of the faster stuff which involves a pumping motion and that often works really well, there are videos explaining it all over the place. |
| _____________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 8:25am - ouchdrummer ""] I use the push pull with my faster blasts. I use regular match grip. I used to use the french grip, but i got tendinitis from it. You have to be careful with it, you're wrist can take a lot more than you're tendons on the knife side of your hand.... but yeah, i've found that the push pull doesn't really make me go FASTER per-say, it's more that it lets me hit the faster blasts harder. Giving you that extra velocity with the stick. |
| ___________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 9:12am - arktouros ""] I use match for pretty much everything. Since grasping the blast beat concept, push-pull came naturally for building up speed and keeping consistent rhythm, the in-and-out movement of the arm is a good tempo marker, made looking at the big picture of the blast rhythm easier...if that makes any sense. It also makes accents a breeze across the whole kit. The right hand does it without thinking, but the left arm is still working on it like always...all technique comes from rudiments and it's the only thing that is getting my left arm to catch up with the rest of my limbs. |
| ________________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 9:20am - DestroyYouAlot ""] ITT: handjob olympiads |
| ________________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 9:26am - josh_hates_you ""] practicing up strokes and down strokes in sequence helps me. Down stroke. tap. tap up. full. www.tigerbill.com this dude always advertises his "tension free" drumming system based off of the moeller motion and the gladstone technique. supposed to eliminate muscle strain tennis elbow carpal tunnel and tendonitis etc from repetative motion. never tried it. plus there is just a ridiculous amount of good stuff on that site. |
| ____________________________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 9:28am - menstrual_sweatpants_disco ""] I can never get the power I need with the initial push stroke for push/pull. I practice it now and then but not too seriously. |
| ______________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 10:12am - ouchdrummer ""] menstrual_sweatpants_disco said:I can never get the power I need with the initial push stroke for push/pull. I practice it now and then but not too seriously. Mike, it sounds to me like you're talking about the Moeller technique. I thought what he meant by the push pull is a normal blast that your arm moves towards and away from the drum as your wrist goes up and down to get more volume without the stick having to go as high. |
| _____________________________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 12:44pm - menstrual_sweatpants_disco ""] I'm talking about the push / pull where you kind of move your arm towards the drum for the downward stroke and let the stick rebound (and letting your hand open up with your fingers extended), but WITHOUT bringing your arm back up right away during the rebound. You then snap your hand closed creating the 2nd stroke with your fingers only. You gave me an idea though. There's nothing that says that initial stroke has to be all forearm with no wrist/finger action. As long as you can achieve the right bounce back and make it so the stick and your hand are in the right position for the "pull" stroke. I'm going to try this out. PS: I first learned about push/pull at a Dave Dicenso clinic. He was fucking tight as hell with this. And fast. |
| _____________________________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 12:45pm - menstrual_sweatpants_disco ""] Also.. I've never really experimented with Moeller a whole lot. It just seems a lot like the same technique you'd use to do doubles, which I do all the time. The only benefit I see from moeller is the ability to do tripples in each hand maybe. Thoughts? |
| _____________________________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 1:28pm - your slargument is invalid ""] i never practice drills like this anymore, tho its probably about time, my right hand on the ride or hats usually is making this sort of motion whilst blasting but i cant seem to replicate it with the left, im not sure if this because of how well (ahem) "trained" my right hand is or if its the bounce characteristics of the cymbal vs snare |
| ___________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 1:34pm - arktouros ""] your%20slargument%20is%20invalid said:im not sure if this because of how well (ahem) "trained" my right hand is my left hand is my "trained" one but i'm telling ya it doesn't translate well to the kit. bounce feedback has something to do with it but expert left hand fapping doesn't equal left hand drum control for me. the fapping hand is better at the caveman technique though. |
| ______________________________ [Feb 19,2010 1:35pm - Yeti ""] josh_hates_you said:practicing up strokes and down strokes in sequence helps me. Down stroke. fap. |
| ________________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 1:37pm - josh_hates_you ""] arktouros said:bounce feedback has something to do with it but expert left hand fapping doesn't equal left hand drum control for me. the fapping hand is better at the caveman technique though. faping for stick control? this is a practice technique i could get into. |
| ________________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 2:00pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] Practice pad? [img] |
| ________________________________________ [Feb 19,2010 4:54pm - HandinjuryNLI ""] ouchdrummer said:I use the push pull with my faster blasts. I use regular match grip. I used to use the french grip, but i got tendinitis from it. You have to be careful with it, you're wrist can take a lot more than you're tendons on the knife side of your hand.... but yeah, i've found that the push pull doesn't really make me go FASTER per-say, it's more that it lets me hit the faster blasts harder. Giving you that extra velocity with the stick. Cool, if match is working for you, then I am gonna keep practicing the push/pull with match. As much I like the bounce and fingers/hand position with french grip, I am always hesitant to incorporate it on the drum kit because I had tendinitis for 4 years and I am not going back that road again. Blast on dudes! :doublehorns::doublehorns::doublehorns: |
| ___________________________________ [Feb 20,2010 5:59am - barbeloh ""] yay for French grip, use it all the time For me the blast is all about the fingers. Get a good fulcrum and develop the strength of those fingers. That's all there is to it. Witness the master: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eqTC3-nTZro&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eqTC3-nTZro&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> (ridiculous angle on that wrist! Jesus) if letting the fingers do all the work (following up on the initial stroke) is what you mean by the "push-pull" then of course that is the way to go. Thing is, fingers alone won't cut it on a cymbal or hi-hat since the response is so different. This is what makes the Moeller tech. necessary - so you have to have the fingers carrying out the blast on the snare while getting the arm way more into it on the ride or hat. (What you get if you use the moeller on the snare too is the kind choppy, uneven volume, if note-for-note accurate, blast that Marco Minneman was playing on the Necrophagist tour. He was an AWESOME drummer but it was clear that he hadn't been drilling grind at all [ditto re: his 2-footed blasts], although by now I imagine he could do it in his sleep.) |
| ___________________________________ [Feb 20,2010 6:00am - barbeloh ""] ach here is the C.W. url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqTC3-nTZro |
| _______________________________________ [Feb 20,2010 10:22am - goatcatalyst ""] Your French Grip is commendable, D, but your Arabian Jilking makes me gasp and swoon. |
| _____________________________________ [Feb 22,2010 8:08am - ouchdrummer ""] menstrual_sweatpants_disco said:I'm talking about the push / pull where you kind of move your arm towards the drum for the downward stroke and let the stick rebound (and letting your hand open up with your fingers extended), but WITHOUT bringing your arm back up right away during the rebound. You then snap your hand closed creating the 2nd stroke with your fingers only. You gave me an idea though. There's nothing that says that initial stroke has to be all forearm with no wrist/finger action. As long as you can achieve the right bounce back and make it so the stick and your hand are in the right position for the "pull" stroke. I'm going to try this out. PS: I first learned about push/pull at a Dave Dicenso clinic. He was fucking tight as hell with this. And fast. As far as i know that is the Moeller technique. |
| _______________________________________________________________ [Feb 22,2010 1:36pm - slark the slar in the slarvard slard ""] i use the push pull technique to fist my own ass |
| ____________________________________________________ [Feb 22,2010 3:17pm - menstrual_sweatpants_disco ""] ouchdrummer said: menstrual_sweatpants_disco said:I'm talking about the push / pull where you kind of move your arm towards the drum for the downward stroke and let the stick rebound (and letting your hand open up with your fingers extended), but WITHOUT bringing your arm back up right away during the rebound. You then snap your hand closed creating the 2nd stroke with your fingers only. You gave me an idea though. There's nothing that says that initial stroke has to be all forearm with no wrist/finger action. As long as you can achieve the right bounce back and make it so the stick and your hand are in the right position for the "pull" stroke. I'm going to try this out. PS: I first learned about push/pull at a Dave Dicenso clinic. He was fucking tight as hell with this. And fast. As far as i know that is the Moeller technique. Definitely not moeller. I'll have to show you what I mean next time I see your sexy ass. |