black guys as preppies?
[views:13981][posts:100]_______________________________________
[Sep 22,2010 11:39pm - the_reverend ""]
http://www.unabashedlyprep.com/site/the-black-ivy/
[Sep 22,2010 11:44pm - Woah!_Shut_It_Down! ""]
-50 Years Of Progress. Go Back To Segregated Water Fountains, Colored.
[Sep 22,2010 11:49pm - the_reverend ""]
idk, they look pretty slick in those cardigans.
[img]I have a book some where that has all pictures like that of "negroids"
[Sep 22,2010 11:51pm - Woah!_Shut_It_Down! ""]
Dis scince shit be tryin' keep bruddas back in slabery, yo.
[Sep 22,2010 11:56pm - the_reverend ""]
back to the back of the bus... BREAKDOWN.
[Sep 23,2010 12:08am - joeyumbrella ""]
where all the white women at?
[Sep 23,2010 12:15am - Alx_Casket ""]
I continue to live, burdened by the knowledge that I will never know the black man's pain.
[Sep 23,2010 12:59am - DestroyYouAlot ""]
Dude there is a guy with glasses, a bow tie, and Steve Urkel suspenders. Amazing.
[Sep 23,2010 7:52am - ShadowSD ""]
Being a prep is actually pretty color blind, historically I'm reminded all the way back to a character like Thomas from the movie Glory, the examples go a long way. What's weird and disturbing is suburban white kids who think parodying ebonics and urban dress is anything but incredibly offensive. Those idiots are a new phenomenon that didn't exist at all until fifteen/twenty years ago.
[Sep 23,2010 8:42am - boxxy ""]
ShadowSD said:Being a prep is actually pretty color blind, historically I'm reminded all the way back to a character like Thomas from the movie Glory, the examples go a long way. What's weird and disturbing is suburban white kids who think parodying ebonics and urban dress is anything but incredibly offensive. Those idiots are a new phenomenon that didn't exist at all until fifteen/twenty years ago.
Are you referring to what most people call "wiggers"? Because it's pretty narrow minded to say that suburban white kids have to dress, or talk a certain way. (or that they CAN'T dress or talk a certain way) And can there not be suburban black kids? What about when THEY speak in ebonics and dress with urban flair? Is THAT ok just because they're black? How people want to speak, or to dress, is totally up to them, and to look down on them for it is closed minded.
[Sep 23,2010 9:42am - sinistas ""]
[img]
[Sep 23,2010 9:50am - nekronaut ""]
arilliusbm said:this thread is racist
[Sep 23,2010 9:51am - arilliusbm ""]
I don't know. I've always hated urban fashion when it's coming from snobby rich white kids from suburbia. Yes, you're not supposed to judge a book by it's cover, but give me a fucking break. The only reason sagging pants got in style is because the slave owners wouldn't allow slaves to wear belts.. same thing in prison. They don't want inmates to hang themselves or use them as weapons. So when I see a white kid whose parents make a combined 400k a year dressing like he from the streets of Harlem, GTFO poser. Keep that shit in urban areas and get your act together.
[Sep 23,2010 10:53am - ShadowSD ""]
boxxy said:Are you referring to what most people call "wiggers"? Because it's pretty narrow minded to say that suburban white kids have to dress, or talk a certain way. (or that they CAN'T dress or talk a certain way) And can there not be suburban black kids? What about when THEY speak in ebonics and dress with urban flair? Is THAT ok just because they're black? How people want to speak, or to dress, is totally up to them, and to look down on them for it is closed minded.
People can and are going to do whatever they want, but arillusbm is right, for middle class or rich white kids to purposefully mimick the gestures and mannerisms of the black and poor is pretty fucked up; it used to be called blackface when this happened in the old days, but somehow became acceptable in an era that started in about 1993 with majority white record executives mass-marketing rap to suburban white teenagers. Your analogy of the reverse fails because there's no such thing as "whiteface" and I was the one in this thread who to first said the obvious fact that preppies can be black or any color; there is no such thing as "acting black" as we're all individuals, there IS however (just like the Cagney accent among some of the British) a certain dialect and mannerism that evolved among urban poor blacks that the worst and most demeaning caricature of which is for some reason mimicked by dumbfuck rich white kids who think they're tough and cool - and they are completely oblivious as to how absolutely fucking racist it is, nor does anyone call them out on it.
Don't tell me it's closed minded to realize it's in poor taste, it's closed-minded not to; it's openly making fun of a demeaning caricature of of a race considered completely accepable for the purposes of mass selling CD's and clothes to idiots, and while rich white kids are obviously free to walk around with fake accents 24-7 acting like the ugliest underclass stereotype of a black person (or an Indian person or a Chinese person for that matter), I am equally free to point out that they're fucked up to do it, and that it's also fucked up that such behavior is considered acceptable only as long as it's the poor urban black caricature being parodied.
[Sep 23,2010 11:07am - arilliusbm ""]
This is what it means to be a real, surburban white thug:
bennyhillifier
[Sep 23,2010 11:16am - boxxy ""]
you can explain away how it makes you feel all you want. The fact is that people can dress how they want... That's as far as topic needs to go, any further than that is just trying to make yourself feel better. Yes, to YOU they might resemble black kids from poverty, to them they might look cool. Kids wanna dress how their heroes do, and what's wrong with kids having rappers as heroes? NOTHING IMHO, but obviously you don't think that's ok... you do realize you're saying that right? That they shouldn't be able to dress like and emulate the way their heroes/idols talk, just because those heroes happened to have come from a lower class than they were born in.
Think about it.
[Sep 23,2010 11:23am - arilliusbm ""]
As long as they have direction in their life there is no reason to say anything. Nothing worse than a bunch of degenerate fucks that ... Oh wait, hi Rttp
[Sep 23,2010 11:31am - ShadowSD ""]
I went to high school starting in 1993, I saw the change that year and how forced it was, watching a majority of preppie white kids being pressured because they saw their friends acting and talking a certain way so they did it too, and those who they emulated in the first place did it to begin with because of mass marketing that made THEM think everyone else was doing it.
All along no one stopped to think for themselves for five seconds to think about how racist it was for a bunch of suburban white kids to imitate and caricature the mannerisms of a negative racial poverty stereotype.
You're absolutely right that there shouldn't be boundaries of class or anything else binding anyone, but that certainly doesn't succeed if mass marketing is generating unlimited copies of negative class and race caricatures that we continue to perpetuate, and without the least bit of self-awareness about it. Think about that.
boxxy said:That they shouldn't be able to dress like and emulate the way their heroes/idols talk
I consider Iron Maiden and Helloween and Stratovarius among some of the bands I've always really liked/admired, but am I going to swagger around permanently speaking in an exaggerated British or German or Finnish accent? No - because that would make me an ASS.
When I went to see Iron Maiden some years back and Bruce said don't smoke weed everybody, even though I idolize Iron Maiden, I sparked up that second - because I can think FOR MYSELF.
People are free to do anything - but are generally better off thinking for themselves and not being an ass, surely we can agree on that much.
[Sep 23,2010 11:36am - IllinoisEnemaBradness ""]
[img]
[Sep 23,2010 11:46am - boxxy ""]
Ok, well now you're talking about something totally different. I agree that kids shouldn't be sheep and just dress a certain way to fit in.... it's gonna happen no matter what, and most of them will grow out of it, but yeah, it's silly.
What you said before about "white suburban kids" being "incredibly offensive idiots" for trying to dress like the black lower class... now that's a totally different argument, and my argument from my earlier post still stands.
[Sep 23,2010 12:21pm - poopshit ""]
oh, the the irony of those complaining about people copying black styles... ever heard of this style of music called "rock'n'roll"? shamelessly ripped from black guys. clearly, the irony is lost on the douches complaining here that your favorite music, metal, came from all of this.
do you use the word "cool"? do you call your friends "man"? then you're copying black styles.
if a dude is a gearhead, let him be greasy and talk car shit and slang with his friends. if a dude is into literature, let him be some nerd and make witty references all day long with his other geek friends. if someone is into lifting weights, mixed martial arts, painting, horror movies, goth music, OR hip-hop music, chances are they might get drawn into the extra aspects surrounding it. what is so hard to understand about that?
if you don't LIKE rap or black people, just say that and don't try to explain it all away. Nirvana was huge in the early 90s too and tons of douches, middle and upper class douches, started wearing dirty ripped jeans and flannels tied around their wastes (clearly not a way to look objectively "middle class").... looking like heroin addict degenerates from the west coast. who gives a fuck?
look at how many douches in the past ten years wore mesh hats and wore funny moustaches and drank shitty beer. people just get drawn to different shit, don't single one out.
[Sep 23,2010 12:28pm - boxxy ""]
poopshit said:oh, the the irony of those complaining about people copying black styles... ever heard of this style of music called "rock'n'roll"? shamelessly ripped from black guys. clearly, the irony is lost on the douches complaining here that your favorite music, metal, came from all of this.
do you use the word "cool"? do you call your friends "man"? then you're copying black styles.
if a dude is a gearhead, let him be greasy and talk car shit and slang with his friends. if a dude is into literature, let him be some nerd and make witty references all day long with his other geek friends. if someone is into lifting weights, mixed martial arts, painting, horror movies, goth music, OR hip-hop music, chances are they might get drawn into the extra aspects surrounding it. what is so hard to understand about that?
if you don't LIKE rap or black people, just say that and don't try to explain it all away. Nirvana was huge in the early 90s too and tons of douches, middle and upper class douches, started wearing dirty ripped jeans and flannels tied around their wastes (clearly not a way to look objectively "middle class").... looking like heroin addict degenerates from the west coast. who gives a fuck?
look at how many douches in the past ten years wore mesh hats and wore funny moustaches and drank shitty beer. people just get drawn to different shit, don't single one out.
thank you... whoever you are... it's nice to see that SOMEBODY gets what i'm saying.
[Sep 23,2010 12:29pm - arilliusbm ""]
1.) modern rap sucks
2.) only rap from the 80s and 90s is real
3.) MTV is and has been the demise of our generation.
[Sep 23,2010 12:36pm - arilliusbm ""]
4.) Those who have the opportunities to better their life ( in this case, rich or middleclass white/black/Asian/whatever kids who idolize inner city pop/thug culture) should be bound and gagged for not taking advantage. Not everyone has the opportunity to expand their life, and those who don't must work their asses off so they can. If this opportunity is handed to you on a silver platter and you refuse to accept it because you idolize those who don't, then you FAIL and are a leech to society. Yes, I'm looking at you surburban low life scumbags who have the potential but fail to run with it.
In short, get a fucking job, stay in school, and listen or dress however the fuck you want.
Blame the parents. Too worried about their trust fund and not worried about their kids.
[Sep 23,2010 12:39pm - RichHorror ""]
OBAMA
[Sep 23,2010 12:41pm - poopshit ""]
1.) modern rap sucks
well, yeah modern MAINSTREAM rap definitely sucks. i hear you.
2.) only rap from the 80s and 90s is real
well.... that shit is awesome, but again, you gotta go underground to get ANYTHING good. i mean, if you're just basing it off what you hear when you scan stations on the way to work, then of course. shit fucking blows now. gotta go underground. gotta go underground.
3.) MTV is and has been the demise of our generation.
absolutely agree, but i will add in all television, marketing, blah blah, mass media as a whole.
[Sep 23,2010 12:42pm - arilliusbm ""]
Agreed. Underground Hiphop is the best today. Mainstream shit is clicks and whistles.
[Sep 23,2010 12:43pm - boxxy ""]
how can you say that if a kid is into hip hop culture than he's not expanding his life? Or taking advantage of his opportunities? Just because of the way they dress or talk? REALLY? Why, because you don't like the music/style? Come on man, i'm sure there are plenty of kids who dress in "urban" styles who go to college and get good jobs.
wait.. you're obviously just trying to sound like an idiot, haha, i get it. You're funny.
[Sep 23,2010 12:45pm - boxxy ""]
Jim, seriously, think about this. I grew up in suburban, middle class america. But i didn't go to Harvard and get a job as a lawyer or working in the stock market, i've devoted my life to making music... but if i did the exact same thing, but dressed urban, and devoted my life to hip-hop, you would think i was a leech on society? Why? It doesn't make sense.
[Sep 23,2010 12:48pm - arilliusbm ""]
I stated it because you cannot deny the morons who fail to improve their life when it is handed to them on a silver platter. Granted this doesn't apply to all surburban thugs, but it seems that because they idolize those who have little opportunity to better their life,they're exempt from it because they could care less.
Meanwhile you have poor kids in the ghetto trying their hardest to get out of the ghetto and improve their life. I guess all it takes is an attempted rape gone awry and a hit Internet autotune remix made by surburban whites to get out of the jam.
And no, I'm friends with a few wiggers, but they know wassup and aren't leeches to society.
[Sep 23,2010 12:49pm - poopshit ""]
if a kid follows the wrong path in life because of some music he hears and some slang and attitude he gets drawn to, i would guess that he would've done that eventually with something else.
i knew plenty of "wigger" kids of all classes who became engineers or computer dudes or accountants or whatever, because independent of their style, they wanted to DO that shit.
there will always be fuckups who squander opportunities in all economic classes, regardless of whatever style or idiom they get into. look at all te rich lacrosse-playing doucheboxes who are dying from heroin and OCs these days.
don't get me wrong, i'm sure that some kids got drawn to the dark side quicker because of the glamor of hip-hop and being ghetto and all that (let's face it, some people do idolize it) but i would venture that a good percentage of fuckups will be fuckups no matter what.
[Sep 23,2010 12:52pm - boxxy ""]
again, exactly. I like poopshit.
[Sep 23,2010 12:54pm - arilliusbm ""]
Yea.. It doesnt matter what cliche you follow. I'm just sick of seeing people take shut for granted and turn into leeches; sadly a lot of suburban "thugs" fall under that category.
But, it's their life, they can do what they want.
Same goes for basement black metal dudes. Oh wait, I guess I'm one of those
[Sep 23,2010 12:59pm - boxxy ""]
Jim, you have been enlightened.
[Sep 23,2010 1:01pm - arilliusbm ""]
from here on, I will be known as "arilliusST"
Suburban Thug
[Sep 23,2010 1:04pm - dertoxia ""]
All i know is I live just outside of suburbia, not in the country but not exactly in the suburbs. When I was in high school there were like 5 or 6 black kids initially. They all acted thug like they were from some inner city (even the one who lived on a farm). Then one day a new kid moved in who said he was from the bronx (which i suspect may not be true). Instantly he was in their circle. I understand that it probably had more to do with the fact that they had the same color skin and felt safer around each other than a bunch of rednecks (except for the most part they were all rednecks too). It's just weird that he didn't seem to notice or care that none of these other kids were genuinely 'ghetto'.
[Sep 23,2010 1:06pm - boxxy ""]
I don't get the point of your story, is it that yes, even black kids can be racist too? Cause that's true, but not news.
[Sep 23,2010 1:11pm - arilliusST ""]
yo wassup my niggas!!!!
[Sep 23,2010 1:48pm - ShadowSD ""]
poopshit said:oh, the the irony of those complaining about people copying black styles... ever heard of this style of music called "rock'n'roll"? shamelessly ripped from black guys. clearly, the irony is lost on the douches complaining here that your favorite music, metal, came from all of this.
do you use the word "cool"? do you call your friends "man"? then you're copying black styles.
Copying black styles is fine. Mocking black stereotypes isn't. Have we completely lost all ability to see the line?
I'll make it simple:
As a white guy, if I went outside right now hamming up the most exaggerated imitation of the accent and mannerisms of the worst Asian American or Indian or Jewish or Native American poverty stereotypes, I'd rightfully be looked at as a jackass at the very least. If I went outside and hammed up the the most exaggerated imations of the accent and mannerisms of the worst African American poverty stereotypes, people would assume I was talking street and so it's OK. Don't you see something wrong with that? There's something seriously wrong with that negative sort of exception, and pointing that out is not a "dislike for black people" or "black styles", quite the contrary.
By the way, I say cool and man ALL the time. However, I don't say yo yo yo what's up my nigger, because I don't want to be confused with all the suburban whites of my age and younger who fail to see how that's offensive given that whites enslaved blacks on this continent for hundreds of years. Must they also be endlessly mocked and parodied as a commercial commodity for spoiled rich white kids with no respect or sense of history?
The blues worked their way from African Americans to Americans of all races in a completely organic and normal fashion; on the other hand, the more recent planned marketing of poor black culture to affluent white teens by even more affluent white executives really had nothing to do with art or music at all, it began in a corporate boardroom, and was a targeted commercial campaign that ultimately made it acceptable for rich white kids to openly imitate a caricature of poor urban blacks until the guise of reverance. I don't find such supposed reverance the least bit credible or respectful.
[Sep 23,2010 2:43pm - ShadowSD ""]
To put it another way, I'm reminded of the Lindsey Nagel moment in the classic Poochie episode of the Simpsons. As the obvious symbol for the corporate hack in any creative television session, her two contributions were "let's put him in a hip-hop context" and "let's Rastafarianize him x percent". It was one of the funniest moments of the episode: the lily-white corporate exec lady gleefully marketing black culture and dicing it into pieces to sell to suburban white kids without the least bit of self-awareness, guilt, or sense of irony. The Simpsons got it - why don't you?
[Sep 23,2010 2:45pm - poopshit ""]
with all due respect, i don't think you're getting what i'm saying.
first:
all of this poor African American slang, mannerisms, and fashion gets transported to suburban white youth through a very particular means - humankind's strongest language: MUSIC!
of COURSE people would see you as a jack-ass if you were doing the worst Asian American stereotypes or Native American or whatever. inthe US, there's no music associated with it in pop culture. African American styles have played a HUGE role in what has entertained tons of people for years and years now, so naturally a percentage of people from all walks of life are going to be drawn to the surrounding aspects. Africans in Liberia, one of the world's worst countries for fuck's sake, mimic American hip-hop stylings and they're fucking poorer than any black dude here. i can't think of any other examples of other cultures that come even close to the pervasiveness of what African Americans have created.
to put it really simple: MUSIC is a huge vehicle for expression and a LOT of peripheral things can stick to certain forms and stay on for the ride. clothing, styles, art, slang, choice of drugs (how many people do you know drop ecstasy at MDF? how many people are blazed at sXe shows?), habits, whatever. just like a bunch of kids had greasy, shitty hair and torn jeans in the early 90s because they saw fucking Stone Temple Pilots on MTV, a bunch of other kids got into baggy pants and sports jerseys or whatever when they saw rap videos. just like there were all those Japanese skate-thrash people dressing like East L.A. gangstas and Mike Muir and shit. people just do that!
yeah, i agree with you that there is some irony that well-to-do kids ape the styles of people who are comparatively disenfranchised, but to focus only on that is missing the picture. it's MUSIC and along with that frequently comes a lot of other shit.
----------------------
second: while i agree that hip-hop and all its mannerisms and associated lifestyle stuff definitely got a huge boost from marketing, to claim that as the sole driving force for all these suburban kids becoming wiggers is a little extreme. you sound like you never met a white kid who was into rap before 1993 or something.
----
last, re: blues and rock'n'roll working their way through to whites in an organic matter. you're kidding yourself if you think that. as documented in about a million places, it was fucking jungle music to most white families in the 50s until dudes like Elvis came along. i don't think it was some conspiracy to steal their music, it's just that people like shit that's served up to them by people they're not scared of. to me it's the same thing when a teenager can listen to gay deathcore shit made by people who look like his friends, and know nothing about something like Autopsy.
[Sep 23,2010 2:47pm - arilliusbm ""]
god damn this argument is long now. can't read at work.
Paraphrase points plz
[Sep 23,2010 2:50pm - poopshit ""]
re: second post, Simpsons etc.
sure man, marketing is terrible. but you're talking like there was The Great African-American Marketing Blitzkrieg of 1993 and all of your friends dropped you because of it. a bunch of other shit got marketed too, i don't know why you're so burnt about the black guys.
[Sep 23,2010 3:08pm - poopshit ""]
ok.... re-reading all of this, i see we're just arguing different points.
i'm just focusing on the phenomenon of kids being drawn to it, and it doesn't bother me if a middle-class kid finds such-and-such a style attractive, because it's just one style out of a gazillion other ones.
however, when it comes to your sore-spot about the marketing: i don't think marketing execs are doing some nefarious shit like "let's package all the hundreds of years pain and suffering of inner city blacks into FUN for WHITES! MUUHAHAHA!"......
i think it's more something like "hey, Kevin, these rap guys are sure a hit... i think it would be great if for our next cereal commerical, we put one of those kinda guys rapping to his mom about how tasty it is."
i think it's harmless until it snowballs and you get an "iffy" aspect like whites using the word "nigga". other than that, i don't see any co-opting of direct pain and suffering.
[Sep 23,2010 3:12pm - ShadowSD ""]
Well, organic compared to today mass-marketing, I am aware of the history of the blues and how whites weren't supposed to listen to it (and I had a feeling even as I typed that that the wording left me open to that criticism, but I stuck with it because the fact remains that back then marketing didn't encourage people to imitate or mock black people when the blues were taking off, nor was there the mass-marketing ability at that time to even attempt such a thing; we live in a far more commercial and synthetic age now).
You make a good point about music being associated African Americans in pop culture, and while I think that's in part true, I can't be so optimistic to believe that it's all that it is. The fact that blacks were slaves and also happen to be the one race that can be openly mocked in public under the guise of pop culture is hardly a coincidence, and not an irony I can ignore as easily as those who do the parodying.
You are also correct that hip-hop culture is pervasive and catchy, which is one reason mass industry jumped on it in the early 90's; they knew a catchy rap on a chicken commercial would grab even those few who couldn't sing along with the melody of a jingle, and thus making it common in all commericial media could increase their bottom line. The problem is that banishing melody and notes like some of plague in some corporate boardroom is such a non-musical decision that it's really impossible to defend. Catchy, whatever the genre, does not always equal good, and this is true about all types of music; for a lot of Top 40 stuff over the decades (for instance), plenty of songs were more catchy than they were good, leaving people with songs stuck in their head playing over and over again that they couldn't stand (we've all been there). The military even used that priniciple to torture prisoners with the same song over and over. Of course, that's not to say catchy is always bad either; there's nothing better than a song that's catchy AND good, but catchy does not inherently equal good and often can be negative when the catchy to good ratio gets too high.
[Sep 23,2010 3:22pm - boxxy ""]
Nope. Not buying it. We were all talking about the same thing, until people got called out for being closed minded and for stereo-typing, then they tried to explain that in fact they were making a totally different point. Nope. At the beginning of this thread someone said that white kids from the suburbs shouldn't talk or dress like black people from poverty.... why? because it's offensive, and they're idiots. (i'm not paraphrasing, they actually said that.) Those statements are CLOSED MINDED and any attempt to explain how they're not is backpedaling from a point of view that they realize is wrong.
[Sep 23,2010 3:24pm - arilliusbm ""]
I'm closed minded to leeches of society, whatever cliche they fall under.
[Sep 23,2010 3:24pm - poopshit ""]
ok, we're getting closer.
honestly man, about the "mocking" thing: maybe when my office-worker dad comes up to me and says "hey, nice bling bling my nigga" then yeah, definitely mocking. and when dumb indie-rock hipsters self-consciously do southern rap mashups and talk about slappin' hoes and wassap nigga and all that, yeah.
but when a teenager puts his whole style on the line and buys fully into it, i would say he's 99.99999% likely doing it because he thinks it cool and looks up to it.
as for the catchy thing, i dunno man - maybe you get upset if you are "tricked" by something catchy. if something is "catchy" to me, then it's good. i just let it happen. i love having a laugh at shit like "drop it like it's hot" OR Cock and Ball Torture shamelessly. just retarded neanderthal head-nodding stuff. i ain't too worried about that. sure, music always seems like it's getting dumbed down more and more, but there's always new shit that comes out in the underground that blows everyone away. it always eventually happens.
[Sep 23,2010 3:27pm - ShadowSD ""]
poopshit said:i think it's more something like "hey, Kevin, these rap guys are sure a hit... i think it would be great if for our next cereal commerical, we put one of those kinda guys rapping to his mom about how tasty it is."
That would be nice if that's all it was, but there was a coordinated industry effort to blackball a lot of bands and market a revolving door of hip hop acts in 1993 that spanned radio and TV from music to commercials. MTV and radio OVERNIGHT went from showing mostly metal to blackballing all metal videos before midnight except GN'R, Metallica, Aerosmith, and a single Danzig video. If this was due to sales, fine - but look up the numbers yourself and it made no sense; metal bands were through 1992 and into 1993 selling millions upon millions of albums, with several reliably multi-platinum bands out there that had no sign of a downturn in tour or album sales, while not a single rap album had ever been multi-platinum (4 million albums or more) EVEN BY THE END of 1993, and aside from a single Dre and Snoop album, not a single rap album in history had gone double platinum (2 million albums) by then. Megadeth's 1992 album hit #2 and Mustaine hosted MTV's Democratic Convention coverage; Megadeth's 1994 album debuted at #4 with zero advance video play and MTV continued to refuse to play a single song off of it before midnight, receiving similar treatment as Pantera's #1 album that year. These execs were purposefully blackballing metal bands and pushing rap not because of but in spite of the sales, under the theory that a revolving door of rap and r&b one hit wonders was a better well to draw from than bands that sold reliably but could ask for a bigger cut every subsequent album and tour.
Do I think executives were laughing manicially about getting to exploit blacks? Of course not. But they certainly weren't dumb enough to be unaware of the irony and tastelessness of what they were doing, which is why the Simpsons joke to that effect worked.
i think it's harmless until it snowballs and you get an "iffy" aspect like whites using the word "nigga". other than that, i don't see any co-opting of direct pain and suffering.
But that's a problem, it's a slippery slope, and there's really no avoiding the iffy aspects eventually, because of course it's going to snowball.
[Sep 23,2010 3:27pm - boxxy ""]
arilliusbm said:I'm closed minded to leeches of society, whatever cliche they fall under.
again, why do you associate these things with the urban/black way of dressing and speaking? That's the part that's closed minded.
[Sep 23,2010 3:31pm - boxxy ""]
ShadowSD said:
poopshit said:i think it's more something like "hey, Kevin, these rap guys are sure a hit... i think it would be great if for our next cereal commerical, we put one of those kinda guys rapping to his mom about how tasty it is."
That would be nice if that's all it was, but there was a coordinated industry effort to blackball a lot of bands and market a revolving door of hip hop acts in 1993 that spanned radio and TV from music to commercials. MTV and radio OVERNIGHT went from showing mostly metal to blackballing all metal videos before midnight except GN'R, Metallica, Aerosmith, and a single Danzig video. If this was due to sales, fine - but look up the numbers yourself and it made no sense; metal bands were through 1992 and into 1993 selling millions upon millions of albums, with several reliably multi-platinum bands out there that had no sign of a downturn in tour or album sales, while not a single rap album had ever been multi-platinum (4 million albums or more) EVEN BY THE END of 1993, and aside from a single Dre and Snoop album, not a single rap album in history had gone double platinum (2 million albums) by then. Megadeth's 1992 album hit #2 and Mustaine hosted MTV's Democratic Convention coverage; Megadeth's 1994 album debuted at #4 with zero advance video play and MTV continued to refuse to play a single song off of it before midnight, receiving similar treatment as Pantera's #1 album that year. These execs were purposefully blackballing metal bands and pushing rap not because of but in spite of the sales, under the theory that a revolving door of rap and r&b one hit wonders was a better well to draw from than bands that sold reliably but could ask for a bigger cut every subsequent album and tour.
Do I think executives were laughing manicially about getting to exploit blacks? Of course not. But they certainly weren't dumb enough to be unaware of the irony and tastelessness of what they were doing, which is why the Simpsons joke to that effect worked.
i think it's harmless until it snowballs and you get an "iffy" aspect like whites using the word "nigga". other than that, i don't see any co-opting of direct pain and suffering.
But that's a problem, it's a slippery slope, and there's really no avoiding the iffy aspects eventually, because of course it's going to snowball.
so..... you're just mad because rap/hip-hop became popular instead of the music you like? Because the popularity of the music is the reason why it's been incorporated into commercials, jingles, etc.. It's been used so much because it makes money. Did your best friend stop hanging out with you because you didn't like rap? I think you need a hug.
[Sep 23,2010 3:32pm - arilliusbm ""]
I don't. I'm associating it with what seems to be the majority of white suburban thugs that throw their life away the moment they decide to have zero ambitions. Same could be said for any clique; but from my perspective it seems that the majority of these people are caught in MTV culture.
[Sep 23,2010 3:33pm - ShadowSD ""]
boxxy said:At the beginning of this thread someone said that white kids from the suburbs shouldn't talk or dress like black people from poverty.... why? because it's offensive, and they're idiots. (i'm not paraphrasing, they actually said that.) Those statements are CLOSED MINDED and any attempt to explain how they're not is backpedaling from a point of view that they realize is wrong.
Actually, this may be the source of our misunderstanding to begin with, what I said was actually "What's weird and disturbing is suburban white kids who think parodying ebonics and urban dress is anything but incredibly offensive."
Parody means satire/mockery; it does NOT carry a positive connotation. Therefore, I stand by the quote 100%.
[Sep 23,2010 3:35pm - boxxy ""]
That's strange to me, because where i grew up (suburban, middleclass) there were definitely kids that were into hip-hop culture/dress/lingo, and there were kids who had no ambition and who seemed intent on throwing away their future, but the two groups were NOT mutually exclusive. Yes some people fell into both catagories, but that was true with kids that were into metal, into goth, jocks, and kids who just didn't give a fuck.
[Sep 23,2010 3:41pm - arilliusbm ""]
Then we must agree to disagree. People with zero ambitions fall under every category. But to me, (in my analysis of society at least), most (NOT ALL) of the middle-class or rich "wiggers" exemplified that more than other cliques.
[Sep 23,2010 3:45pm - poopshit ""]
yeah ShadowSD, i don't know what to say. it just sounds like you're sore because of some business choices that were undoubtedly made because of marketability.
i watched MTV then, sadly, but i definitely don't remember some huge purge and switch from METAL (like what? Extreme? Mr. Big? Warrant?) to rap overnight. fuck, when "grunge" hit at that time it was alllll over MTV, just like Dr. Dre and Snoop and other stuff.
[Sep 23,2010 3:45pm - boxxy ""]
ShadowSD said:
boxxy said:At the beginning of this thread someone said that white kids from the suburbs shouldn't talk or dress like black people from poverty.... why? because it's offensive, and they're idiots. (i'm not paraphrasing, they actually said that.) Those statements are CLOSED MINDED and any attempt to explain how they're not is backpedaling from a point of view that they realize is wrong.
Actually, this may be the source of our misunderstanding to begin with, what I said was actually "What's weird and disturbing is suburban white kids who think parodying ebonics and urban dress is anything but incredibly offensive."
Parody means satire/mockery; it does NOT carry a positive connotation. Therefore, I stand by the quote 100%.
Ok, so when i asked if you were talking about "wiggers" you should have said no... It COULD be argued that white kids "parody" ebonix, but to dress urban/black? Sorry, if they dress that way, then it's not a parody, and seeing as we've been talking about how they dress in this whole thread, i stand by the fact that you're closed-minded.
[Sep 23,2010 3:52pm - poopshit ""]
re: arillius, i guess we're just talking about different degrees and concentrations of wigger. as we know, massachusetts definitely varies in its flavors of scumbagness. i drove through pittsfield the other day, not a black dude in sight, but tons of horrendous wigger trash with bad old english tattoos and bumpin' cars and shit like that. ouch....
however, i'm from the south shore and have spent a lot of time unfortunately ending up at parties filled with the worst townie, local, dude-brah, Red Sox gear, painkiller addicted, fired-from-the-union pieces of shit that were worlds apart from being "wigger". they were just pieces of shit!
[Sep 23,2010 3:55pm - ShadowSD ""]
boxxy said:Because the popularity of the music is the reason why it's been incorporated into commercials, jingles, etc..
Well, I just gave you a paragraph disproving that as the initial cause for market saturation, so I'd say that's a giant fail in reading comprehension.
boxxy said:Did your best friend stop hanging out with you because you didn't like rap? I think you need a hug.
Wow that's an even bigger fail, actually you couldn't have it more backwards, it was when I admitted to myself how much I hated rap and when I discovered actual music at the beginning of high school that I started to eventually make a few friends. Before that, I not only didn't have any but pretty much rubbed everybody the wrong way; the fact is, it was only once I knew myself and consequently carried myself with respect that other kids went from treating me like shit to showing me a lot of respect.
You on the other hand seem to think being a poseur is the best way to satisfy people; I can tell you that if I had some "friend" who only stopped hanging out with me because I had taste in music, I would consider that good news to be rid of the person. Unfortunately, I never had the opportunity to reject someone that stupid, but the benefit is that I never had a friend that stupid to begin with. Not to detract from your alternate imaginary bio of my life or anything.
[Sep 23,2010 3:55pm - arktouros ""]
i would bet that in a young adult population "wigger" and "not ambitious" correlate a hell of a lot more than other social cliques.
rich-suburban-wigger guy meets inner-city-broke-ass-nigga guy. would nigga guy find it strange that wigger guy looks, talks, acts just like him? cause i sure fucking would. especially when wigger guy just failed out of his 2nd semester in college while nigga guy has to support his mom that can't work.
just saying i sort of disagree with you jim. image means a lot to the people you emulate. it's a culture thing - white suburban kid dresses that way because there's an image they go for. inner-city guy dresses that way because it's part of his culture and it's common among everyone he knows.
it's like when a wigger from ayer is wearing a yankees hat just for the fuck of it. you can tell a mile away that he's a douchebag.
[Sep 23,2010 3:57pm - ShadowSD ""]
poopshit said:yeah ShadowSD, i don't know what to say. it just sounds like you're sore because of some business choices that were undoubtedly made because of marketability.
Why don't you look at the album sales data before saying undoubtedly?
[Sep 23,2010 3:58pm - arilliusbm ""]
I'm with ark
[Sep 23,2010 4:03pm - poopshit ""]
you tell me then, in one or two sentences:
what are the other reasons they would market it so much?
because they were racist?
[Sep 23,2010 4:07pm - boxxy ""]
poopshit said:re: arillius, i guess we're just talking about different degrees and concentrations of wigger. as we know, massachusetts definitely varies in its flavors of scumbagness. i drove through pittsfield the other day, not a black dude in sight, but tons of horrendous wigger trash with bad old english tattoos and bumpin' cars and shit like that. ouch....
however, i'm from the south shore and have spent a lot of time unfortunately ending up at parties filled with the worst townie, local, dude-brah, Red Sox gear, painkiller addicted, fired-from-the-union pieces of shit that were worlds apart from being "wigger". they were just pieces of shit!
right, i think people just have an easier time ignoring duchebags that look like themselves.
Shadow-i was just being a dick with those statements about your life, my entire argument is solid as a rock and was explained in earlier posts.
Ark-aril-shadow- so you guys think that wiggers are more often lowlifes than other subcultures... I get what you're saying, i don't agree, but i understand. I just know so many lowlifes from so many other styles/walks of life that i think your statement is based on stereotypes.
[Sep 23,2010 4:09pm - ShadowSD ""]
arilliusbm said:Then we must agree to disagree. People with zero ambitions fall under every category. But to me, (in my analysis of society at least), most (NOT ALL) of the middle-class or rich "wiggers" exemplified that more than other cliques.
You are absolutely right, and the reason for this is simple. There is an anti-education/information bias in the language and culture, which originally eminated as a legitimate resentment among the most impoverished African Americans during slavery and segregation who lashed out in the only way they could, with a rejection of the standards of greatness set by society that they were not given a fair shake at.
Some will argue that there is punk music and even some metal music that isn't exactly pro-intellectual, but no form of pop culture other than rap is so vigorously wedded to the pursuit of stupidity, misogyny, and selfishness; it become more than a negative emotion captured by a song, but rather a constant philosophy from song to song with not even a drop of self-awareness and irony to make its rough edges sensical (as opposed to say, a metal band like Scaphism writing songs about rape).
[Sep 23,2010 4:10pm - arktouros ""]
boxxy said:At the beginning of this thread someone said that white kids from the suburbs shouldn't talk or dress like black people from poverty.... why? because it's offensive, and they're idiots. (i'm not paraphrasing, they actually said that.) Those statements are CLOSED MINDED and any attempt to explain how they're not is backpedaling from a point of view that they realize is wrong.
i'm saying it is offensive to someone who is part of the "urban/rap/inner-city/black/i don't know what to call it" culture, when someone obviously in a different social and economic class goes out of their way to change their mannerisms, looks, and personality. also, not only would i find it wrong if i was part of that culture, but you can probably guess his level of individuality and self-awareness is pretty fucking low.
and in response to the OP, asians had them beat decades ago.
[Sep 23,2010 4:13pm - boxxy ""]
arktouros said:
boxxy said:At the beginning of this thread someone said that white kids from the suburbs shouldn't talk or dress like black people from poverty.... why? because it's offensive, and they're idiots. (i'm not paraphrasing, they actually said that.) Those statements are CLOSED MINDED and any attempt to explain how they're not is backpedaling from a point of view that they realize is wrong.
i'm saying it is offensive to someone who is part of the "urban/rap/inner-city/black/i don't know what to call it" culture, when someone obviously in a different social and economic class goes out of their way to change their mannerisms, looks, and personality. also, not only would i find it wrong if i was part of that culture, but you can probably guess his level of individuality and self-awareness is pretty fucking low.
and in response to the OP, asians had them beat decades ago.
maybe YOU didn't read the thread sir, because that's not what i was talking about. You said you agreed with aril, who blatantly said that a higher proportion of wiggers become lowlifes than of other subcultures.
[Sep 23,2010 4:13pm - ShadowSD ""]
poopshit said:you tell me then, in one or two sentences:
what are the other reasons they would market it so much?
because they were racist?
Dude, I already answered this exact point:
"You are also correct that hip-hop culture is pervasive and catchy, which is one reason mass industry jumped on it in the early 90's; they knew a catchy rap on a chicken commercial would grab even those few who couldn't sing along with the melody of a jingle, and thus making it common in all commericial media could increase their bottom line... These execs were purposefully blackballing metal bands and pushing rap not because of but in spite of the sales, under the theory that a revolving door of rap and r&b one hit wonders was a better well to draw from than bands that sold reliably but could ask for a bigger cut every subsequent album and tour."
[Sep 23,2010 4:14pm - boxxy ""]
arilliusbm said:Then we must agree to disagree. People with zero ambitions fall under every category. But to me, (in my analysis of society at least), most (NOT ALL) of the middle-class or rich "wiggers" exemplified that more than other cliques.
ark - see?
[Sep 23,2010 4:17pm - poopshit ""]
ok, so.... MARKETABILITY/POPULARITY. making money 'cause it's hot shit! that's all!
Boxxy already put that to you, man. You just sound personally offended that this stuff became more popular.
[Sep 23,2010 4:19pm - arilliusbm ""]
There was a time when hiphop/punk/metal were all unified as underground social cliques and subcultures. They went their own way.
Bring back the fucking 80s.
[Sep 23,2010 4:22pm - boxxy ""]
poopshit said:ok, so.... MARKETABILITY/POPULARITY. making money 'cause it's hot shit! that's all!
Boxxy already put that to you, man. You just sound personally offended that this stuff became more popular.
Record companies do what makes money, so do marketing/advertising people. That fact is solid as gold
FACTBOMB
and anyone who thinks some conspiracy goes against it is deranged.
[Sep 23,2010 4:24pm - arktouros ""]
boxxy said:Ark-aril-shadow- so you guys think that wiggers are more often lowlifes than other subcultures... I get what you're saying, i don't agree, but i understand. I just know so many lowlifes from so many other styles/walks of life that i think your statement is based on stereotypes.
yes. and it's not racial at all. my definition of "wiggers" is damn close to "juggalos" and, well, "morons"...we're not being the least bit scientific here and are stereotyping a bit, sure. but you can tell a lot about a person by "how hard they're trying" and the language they use in conversation, how much they invest themselves in a subculture (which is just an idea after all, and can be a belief system or not....more often than not these people would have disjointed beliefs or none at all) and i've talked to enough wiggers to easily base this stereotype on a piece of my own reality. so there.
[Sep 23,2010 4:28pm - boxxy ""]
and you think that wiggers are more often lowlifes than say.... kids in corpse paint, or goth kids, or rave kids covered in colorful jewelry? Cause i don't think you do. The statement you just made is true, and smart. The statement that i've been arguing with is that WIGGERS specifically, imitating black/urban culture SPECIFICALLY are more commmonly lowlifes than people from other subcultures and cliches. So please, stop arguing with me if you don't understand what i'm arguing about.
[Sep 23,2010 4:30pm - arktouros ""]
boxxy said:
arilliusbm said:Then we must agree to disagree. People with zero ambitions fall under every category. But to me, (in my analysis of society at least), most (NOT ALL) of the middle-class or rich "wiggers" exemplified that more than other cliques.
ark - see?
see what? i agree with that. "most" probably not. but if you could be classified as "wigger" in the first place...well, maybe rich white kid should work getting to know himself a little bit more?
[Sep 23,2010 4:32pm - FuckIsMySignature ""]
only Nig Niggerson is real
[Sep 23,2010 4:33pm - poopshit ""]
it's 2010 man, if a rich white kid wants to look like the people who make the music he likes, he can. lord knows there are plenty of rich kids looking like punks, or sludge dudes with beards, or fake bike messengers.
[Sep 23,2010 4:37pm - arktouros ""]
i'm arguing that i hate wiggers and that they have more potential to be a scumbag than the people they're trying to imitate. and i believe that goth kid can grow up to be president of the americas. ok?
[Sep 23,2010 4:38pm - poopshit ""]
haha.
[Sep 23,2010 4:40pm - arktouros ""]
arktouros said:i would bet that in a young adult population "wigger" and "not ambitious" correlate a hell of a lot more than other social cliques. and yeah jim i do stand by this for the sake of argument. do a study about it.
[Sep 23,2010 5:14pm - arilliusbm ""]
nekronaut said:
arilliusbm said:this thread is racist
[Sep 23,2010 5:48pm - GO DEMS! ""]
arktouros said:wiggers...have more potential to be a scumbag than the people they're trying to imitate
Wiggers suck.
So does diversity, which is a stupid idea.
[Sep 23,2010 5:55pm - ShadowSD ""]
I am arguing with someone who doesn't understand that the profit margin on each album sold has become the key variable in a record company's arithmetic, and I'm done trying to explain it over and over. Go read something.
[Sep 23,2010 9:05pm - reimroc ""]
people can dress however they want to. its the way they act that matters.
[Sep 23,2010 9:51pm - Dankill ""]
http://www.pornoxo.com/videos/31968/black-girl-has-fun-with-white-guy-.html
[Sep 23,2010 10:44pm - martins ""]
arilliusbm said:
nekronaut said:
arilliusbm said:this thread is racist
[Sep 24,2010 2:36am - poopshit ""]
ShadowSD said:I am arguing with someone who doesn't understand that the profit margin on each album sold has become the key variable in a record company's arithmetic, and I'm done trying to explain it over and over. Go read something.
profit margin. ok. got it. PROFIT MARGIN. PROFIT MARGIN.
how, in the end, does that boil down to anything else other than: "make money on product X because product X is hot shit?"
it doesn't. there are no other factors that drive this industry (or almost any other industry).
are you reading the same thread as me?
[Sep 24,2010 2:38am - arilliusbm ""]
martins said:
arilliusbm said:
nekronaut said:
arilliusbm said:this thread is racist
[Sep 24,2010 8:31am - poopshit ""]
"see? see these figures from 1993? our music WAS better!! look at the figures! they fucked us, man! they fucked us! WE deserved that marketing push, not the black guys!!!"
[Sep 24,2010 2:05pm - boxxy ""]
This thread is like a politicians debate. Seriously, it started with someone saying that kids that dressed like wiggers were offensive idiots. I said they were closed minded, and THAT'S what started the argument. Then everytime someone brought a reasonable statement foward, someone else made a point that at best is RELEVANT to what the conversation was at the time, therefore making the whole thread incredibly irritating. Fuck this thread.
[Sep 24,2010 2:15pm - arilliusbm ""]
I'm still lost because I never clicked the link in the first post.
Wiggers are cool and top contributors to society. That's all you need to know.
[Sep 24,2010 2:46pm - boxxy ""]
arilliusbm said:
Wiggers are cool and top contributors to society.
muahahaha
[Sep 24,2010 3:11pm - arilliusbm ""]
The worst was when Eninem/SlimShady got popular and all these dudes bleached their hair and started acting like him...
yeti was one of them
[Sep 24,2010 3:16pm - FuckIsMySignature ""]
only J-Roc is real.
[img]
[Sep 24,2010 3:24pm - Yeti ""]
arilliusbm said:The worst was when Eninem/SlimShady got popular and all these dudes bleached their hair and started acting like him...
yeti was one of them
I WAS DOWN WIT DA CLOWN YO! I AIN'T LISTENIN' TA NO EMINEM BIATCH!!
[Sep 24,2010 3:30pm - boxxy ""]
na, eminem never did it for me. Only Mr. Lif & Akrobatic are real.
[Sep 24,2010 3:33pm - largefreakatzero ""]
Wegroes are ridiculous. "People" (I use that term loosely) CAN do whatever they want, and it's my right to mercilessly make fun of them. I am close-minded and enjoy laughing at stereotypes.
The human race is doomed, mainly due to a crippling overpopulation problem. I look forward to the day where my withdrawal from humanity is complete and I seldom have to venture to urban areas.
[Sep 24,2010 3:35pm - boxxy ""]
well, the next step towards complete withdrawal from humanity COULD be to stop posting on message boards.
but i'd be sad if that was the case.
[Sep 24,2010 3:47pm - largefreakatzero ""]
Complete withdrawal is impossible, unless, in the words of Don Rickles, I "go buy a horse and live in the hills and stop bothering people".
Hence, I continue to lurk here.
[Sep 24,2010 3:52pm - arilliusbm ""]
The real largefreakatzero stopped posting years ago. His 2 dogs have been posting.
[Sep 24,2010 3:58pm - largefreakatzero ""]
arilliusbm said:The real largefreakatzero stopped posting years ago. His 2 dogs have been posting.
[img]
Der, hard tellin' not knowin'...