Faith based Metal[views:44241][posts:230]_______________________________ [Apr 14,2007 9:32pm - Murph ""] ConquerTheBaphomet said:Lamp said:Christ died for his own sins, not for ours. That's your belief but it's not the truth. I personally do not want to start wars with you people and that's why I haven't "preached". I wasn't going to anyway. And please, you tell me what sins he committed so I can throw away my beliefs and become a Hindu. What is the truth, then? |
| _____________________________________ [Apr 14,2007 9:45pm - xanonymousx ""] pro christ said:like http://www.myspace.com/apsiody hey i think this is ctb's band? |
| ________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 12:25am - y_ddraig_goch ""] ALLAH U AKBAR |
| ________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 1:32am - ArrowHead NLI ""] Murph said:Well, I was not going to say anything, but when "faux intellectual" comes into the conversation, then it becomes insulting. Your idea that having a "drastic, irrational, and intolerant" reaction to Christianity actually created all the reasons why I'm so anti-Christian is such an overused cliche and downright ridiculous. (So people are murdered because they are anti-murder?) In fact, it doesn't even make sense. Read my reasons above for why I feel the way I do, and not one points to me, or any other free-thinking individual past or present, having done anything to deserve death or blacklisting other than feeling differently and/or setting those feelings in print. Also, my issue is not just with Roman Catholicism, but with the many offshoots from early Christian tradition that demolished many cultures and beliefs (Arianism, Literalist Christianity, the writings of Justin Martyr and Clement of Alexander to name a few). Roman Catholicism did not fully register itself until the third-fourth century AD, by which time many "godman" traditions were in jeopardy due to politcal and religious furor. (Goodbye to many amazing texts) And I don't make my argument against Christianity for anyone else to jump ship and join me. I understand fully how radical my feelings are, and maybe somewhat jaded, but it's just how I feel. Your thought that "my current beliefs" have me spinning in circles is another cliche amongst cliches in that rant. Seriously, you write as if what you say is sound and concrete, but is actually rather weak and unsubstantiated. You're not smarter than everyone else, so stop trying to climb into my head and tell me why think the way I do. "Attacking without provocation" has worked well for many religions, I think its time someone else attacks, except this time with purpose. I actually had some well thought out points to make to this. Seeing you still trying to justify jumping down this kid's throat without provocation made me want to jump right back in and defend the underdog some more. However, I see that Conqueror has decided he will in fact bring his beliefs into this argument, so at this point I leave him to defend himself. As for your own points, murph, they're weak. Especially the part where you refer to my statements as "cliche". I'd love to see you link any single fucking proof of redundancy in what I've said. Disagree if you like, but your accusation there would be naught but a bullshit cop-out. And again, there is no difference at all between one type of intolerance and another. You're showing intolerance to Christianity at it's merest mention. How you feel that is any way different than the churches past atrocities baffles me. And AGAIN, you've shown that EVERY problem you have is with varying CHURCHES of christ. I still have yet to see you make one useful point against christ himself. Personally, as I've said, I've had no use for the almighty teriyaki man. However, I would never deprive CTB of his right to worship him, nor would I try to dissuade him from believing something that helps him find peace. If he were to do something bad in the name of christ, then I would say or do something. But then, you'll notice that YOU act like an asshole, and I ALSO say or do something. That's the point, and ironically it's one of the founding principles of Satanism. I don't care WHAT you believe, and mopst likely neither does CTB. For you to rip in and blast him like that was something he didn't ask for or deserve, so I stood up for him. And to quell your ridiculous fear of Christianity, if he were to attack your own beliefs in such a way, I would have stood up for you as well. I don't care what your faith is. I only care what it makes you do. |
| ________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 1:35am - ArrowHead NLI ""] Murph said: What is the truth, then? The truth is, we all share a planet. We can't get rid of ALL the assholes, but a lot of us could try a little harder not to BE the assholes. Myself included. |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 1:38am - DaveFromTheGrave ""] [img] |
| ________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 1:40am - ArrowHead NLI ""] Thanks douche! I had finally stopped having fucking nightmares about that guy. |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 1:49am - DaveFromTheGrave ""] [img] |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 1:53am - DaveFromTheGrave ""] [img] |
| __________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 2:09am - kylenli ""] Man this kid sucks. Here are some really good atheist bands... link link link No one does that shit. asshole. |
| ________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 11:28am - Murph ""] ArrowHead NLI said:Murph said:Well, I was not going to say anything, but when "faux intellectual" comes into the conversation, then it becomes insulting. Your idea that having a "drastic, irrational, and intolerant" reaction to Christianity actually created all the reasons why I'm so anti-Christian is such an overused cliche and downright ridiculous. (So people are murdered because they are anti-murder?) In fact, it doesn't even make sense. Read my reasons above for why I feel the way I do, and not one points to me, or any other free-thinking individual past or present, having done anything to deserve death or blacklisting other than feeling differently and/or setting those feelings in print. Also, my issue is not just with Roman Catholicism, but with the many offshoots from early Christian tradition that demolished many cultures and beliefs (Arianism, Literalist Christianity, the writings of Justin Martyr and Clement of Alexander to name a few). Roman Catholicism did not fully register itself until the third-fourth century AD, by which time many "godman" traditions were in jeopardy due to politcal and religious furor. (Goodbye to many amazing texts) And I don't make my argument against Christianity for anyone else to jump ship and join me. I understand fully how radical my feelings are, and maybe somewhat jaded, but it's just how I feel. Your thought that "my current beliefs" have me spinning in circles is another cliche amongst cliches in that rant. Seriously, you write as if what you say is sound and concrete, but is actually rather weak and unsubstantiated. You're not smarter than everyone else, so stop trying to climb into my head and tell me why think the way I do. "Attacking without provocation" has worked well for many religions, I think its time someone else attacks, except this time with purpose. I actually had some well thought out points to make to this. Seeing you still trying to justify jumping down this kid's throat without provocation made me want to jump right back in and defend the underdog some more. However, I see that Conqueror has decided he will in fact bring his beliefs into this argument, so at this point I leave him to defend himself. As for your own points, murph, they're weak. Especially the part where you refer to my statements as "cliche". I'd love to see you link any single fucking proof of redundancy in what I've said. Disagree if you like, but your accusation there would be naught but a bullshit cop-out. And again, there is no difference at all between one type of intolerance and another. You're showing intolerance to Christianity at it's merest mention. How you feel that is any way different than the churches past atrocities baffles me. And AGAIN, you've shown that EVERY problem you have is with varying CHURCHES of christ. I still have yet to see you make one useful point against christ himself. Personally, as I've said, I've had no use for the almighty teriyaki man. However, I would never deprive CTB of his right to worship him, nor would I try to dissuade him from believing something that helps him find peace. If he were to do something bad in the name of christ, then I would say or do something. But then, you'll notice that YOU act like an asshole, and I ALSO say or do something. That's the point, and ironically it's one of the founding principles of Satanism. I don't care WHAT you believe, and mopst likely neither does CTB. For you to rip in and blast him like that was something he didn't ask for or deserve, so I stood up for him. And to quell your ridiculous fear of Christianity, if he were to attack your own beliefs in such a way, I would have stood up for you as well. I don't care what your faith is. I only care what it makes you do. Well, there was really no redundancy in what you said, by you. HOWEVER, your point that intolerance spurns the ills of both sides to an argument is fucking CLICHE. There are varying degrees of intolerance, as there varying degrees of everything. Our legal system dictates that the form of punishment does not always directly mirror the severity of the crime. That's why not all murderers are killed, rapists raped/castrated, etc. I would not lay a finger on anyone because of their beliefs, and would never do anything besides argue. It's a sensitive topic, but for me, it's worth the discussion: no more. The position that simple emotion or states of mental being correlate and equate is childish; if that view was seriously held by more people, there would be no cause for uprising, challenging the system, creating freedom for oppression because then the "defactors" would be charged with the same crimes as their oppressors? NOPE. Also, you said earlier that my problem was with the Roman Catholic church, and now "agree" with something you believe you said earlier (you did not) that I have issues with varying Christian churches. Pick a side of your own argument and stick with it. Not once did I make an argument that made my opinion anywhere near the "faults" I perceive in Christianity. I do not destroy Christian texts, nor do I try in any way to prevent them from worship, nor do I suppress any information whatsoever. I did not address intolerance and adherence as my motivating factor, merely that the damage was done. At that time, it was mostly political anyway, but these things still happened and continue to happen today (non-profit Christian groups endorsing particular candidates, tax-breaks way overboard from our government, the attacks on homosexuality and pregnancy). Your parallel about intolerance in jihadists and radicals and mine is a societal cliche, my friend. My "intolerance and ignorance" is miles away from that behavior, and I'm sick of people who believe that fervor = terrorism. They are not of the same condition, there are millions of ways one can choose to express their beliefs. Putting my opinion on par with the same that drives those factions is ridiculous. I could write for years about my issues with the historical Christ, and the subsequent dissemination of his life and message. No one hear wants to read that: if they do, I'll write a paper and send her out. I never said anything about CTB not being able to worship anything his hearts desires, and actually (though I don't know him) think he's a nice kid who posts some great stuff on here and gets treated with much hostility. I would only give him ribbing for his Christian status, but to me, everyone is a human and deserves every right that I do. For you to call me an "asshole" for voicing my opinion and giving evidence and at least an point-of-view for each of my reasonings, goes against your view that "everyone should be able to feel or worship how they please." If you only care what people's views or beliefs make them do, and think I'm an asshole, then realize the only thing I do is speak occasionally and write my meanderings once in a great while on this messageboard. If that puts me in your scope, whether as a Satanist or not, does not bother me. It's a messageboard, and while it may seem geeky or unnecessary, sometimes these discussions arise, just as they do in human interaction. I have no problem with you calling my points weak, but at every available moment I have given a source or direct link to my motivation. |
| _________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 12:38pm - ArrowHead NLI ""] Murph said: and CTB please, I hate to sound like everyone else, but enough with the Christian shit. It's really fucking pathetic that you're an adult and still holding onto that sad excuse for a fucking belief system. I really have tried, since being raised in a Christian household, to be tolerant of most belief systems especially ones that pertain to godman J, but please, there is absolutely NO evidence that your buddy Jesus was anything more than a historical priest/king who got trampled by the brightest and most powerful systems of his time, and got wrapped right into the Dionysus/Osiris ideology. If you think I'm busting your balls, check it out, shit your pants, and then come back and talk about Christ. Your "ideology" cost more in lives and historical damage/destruction than could ever be imagined being paid back to humanity. I never called you an asshole. I said you acted like one. That's your first post here, in a thread where a kid stated he did NOT want to argue beliefs. If you haven't gotten my point by now, I don't think you will. I've said quite a few times, I don't give a crap what you believe, only how you behave. You jumped all over a non-opportunity to rip apart and criticize a person's beliefs. A person who had expressed he was NOT here to do that. The saddest part is that you keep missing the fact I AGREE with you politically. I just chose not to use this thread to spout my opinions. Well, at least not those opinions. I guess in the end, I'm just as guilty of de-railing this shit as you are. |
| _______________________________ [Apr 15,2007 1:52pm - Murph ""] Just because he did not want to argue belief doesn't mean anything to me. The post was for Christian bands, and what makes a Christian band is a devotion to Christ. I commented, harshly, that I don't fucking get it, and that is dismays me greatly. If I posted, "hey check out these great White Power bands (which I would never do because that is against my feelings completely)" but said I didn't feel like arguing racial issues, do you think I'd still draw criticism? |
| _______________________________ [Apr 15,2007 1:54pm - Murph ""] CTB pretty much chose not to argue with me, and I feel that's just as respectable as if he had chosen to argue. Arguments have to start somewhere, however, and this time, for probably the first time ever for me on here, I did start it. |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 2:04pm - TheFilthyFrenchman ""] [img] |
| __________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 2:36pm - brian_dc ""] my contribution: You want sushi farts? I got sushi farts. Come on down. |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 8:53pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] I've already stated that I respect each and every one of you, so arguing on this board is only going to complicate matters. I like to discuss what I believe in with the intent of just sharing it, not trying to convert someone. It is not my job to save anybody but just to share what I know. Personally, if you choose to cut me down and ridicule me, please do because that just shows that what I have to say makes an impact to you. I stated that I didn't want to argue my beliefs not because I'm ashamed of what I believe in, but because it causes riffs in the well-being of the board. I want to stay here and I would rather much not deal with hostility until the day I've decided I have had enough. As far as the church and its past, I would have to agree I am deeply ashamed and appalled at the methods used against "heathens". I do NOT condone anything despicable the church has done and I sincerely apologize for every Christian who has given themselves a bad name or has treated you unfairly. These people who make a mockery of Christ are the ones I do not stand with, I stand against. It was NOT Jesus' mission to come here and decide to start ANOTHER world religion full of bigotry, jealousy and intolerance. Those actions were taken by his followers on very vain and blind affairs. Please do not associate me with the embarassment of this world. |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 8:55pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] Oh and let me add for the record, I DESPISE Catholicism and anything associated with it. They are the cause of most of the church's hypocrisy and acts of murder, etc. in our history's past. |
| _______________________________ [Apr 15,2007 9:07pm - Troll ""] Catholocism= White Man Voodoo Is there a band called Catholocaust yet? |
| ______________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 9:54pm - GoatCatalyst ""] Troll said:Catholocism= White Man Voodoo Is there a band called Catholocaust yet? can i get a witness? |
| _____________________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 10:10pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] Murph said:ArrowHead NLI said:Murph said:. I could write for years about my issues with the historical Christ, and the subsequent dissemination of his life and message. No one hear wants to read that: if they do, I'll write a paper and send her out. I am interested in hearing your points of view. I highly doubt that you will persuade me in any way because faith is unwavering but I am interested in hearing what you have to say on the matter of Jesus himself. |
| _______________________________________ [Apr 15,2007 10:18pm - GoatCatalyst ""] can't we like, dig a hole and fill it with ALL the christians, muslims and jews and then put a bunch of dirt back on top and call it a day? |
| _____________________________ [Apr 16,2007 1:11am - pam ""] You know, I still wanna know how the fuck I "jumped down" CTB's throat. I'm one of the few people on this board who doesn't tell him to get fucked all the time just because he likes jesus. All I said was for someone that thinks it sucks when people get down on him for being into jesus, it was pretty dumb to post this thread...as it would attract all of the above. I then stated my feelings on religion. I didn't know stating my opinion was jumping down someone's throat. I have no problem with CTB. We're MySpace friends...that's quality shit right there. So go fuck yourself, Arrow, (and I mean that in the least sincere way, as this is the internet) but leave me out of your ranting...I have no issue with the kid and if people's opinions on religion are "attacks", that's fucking news to me. Why don't you spend 10 paragraphs looking down your nose at the 20 fucking people on this thread that specifically told CTB to fuck off/fuck himself/get fucked, etc. Thanks, guy. |
| _____________________________ [Apr 16,2007 1:13am - pam ""] Coldnorthernvengeance said:awwww, aint that sweet FUCK OFF!!! For example. |
| _____________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 1:20am - horror_tang ""] The Catholics headed the anti-slavery movement. Therefore, if you hate Catholics you are racist. Drunk Irish and Germans that came to this country were Catholic. Therefore, if you hate Catholics you hate alcohol and are a gay. Catholicism is the world's greatest religion. You can go do some smack, fuck a goat, molest children and any number of things, then just go to confessional and be forgiven. I think I am going to become a Catholic and raise my children Amish. |
| ________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 4:05am - ArrowHead NLI ""] pam said:You know, I still wanna know how the fuck I "jumped down" CTB's throat. I'm one of the few people on this board who doesn't tell him to get fucked all the time just because he likes jesus. All I said was for someone that thinks it sucks when people get down on him for being into jesus, it was pretty dumb to post this thread...as it would attract all of the above. I then stated my feelings on religion. I didn't know stating my opinion was jumping down someone's throat. I have no problem with CTB. We're MySpace friends...that's quality shit right there. So go fuck yourself, Arrow, (and I mean that in the least sincere way, as this is the internet) but leave me out of your ranting...I have no issue with the kid and if people's opinions on religion are "attacks", that's fucking news to me. Why don't you spend 10 paragraphs looking down your nose at the 20 fucking people on this thread that specifically told CTB to fuck off/fuck himself/get fucked, etc. Thanks, guy. Ha. I stopped picking on your posts what, like two days ago? At least Murph could defend himself with some small amount of reason. You bored me a long time ago. Why even post? You wanted my attention again? I'm not looking down my nose at you, Pam. You're way back in the rear-view mirror. Stop being so bitter that I'm better than you. |
| _________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 4:44am - Agrippa ""] [img] |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 11:58am - babyshaker nli ""] i dont feel like reading anymore i blame the jews |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 12:19pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] [img] |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 1:08pm - ariavette ""] the thing that i find amusing in this thread is how you ppl continue to debate christianity and " what's right".. " what's wrong"... when this thread started about music.. which is what always happens when anyone even thinks the word religion... here come the pitch forks and lighted torches b/c someone disagrees with someone else about religion.. you are all perfectly proving that regardless of the whether or not the music is good... if there is religon involved.. SOMEONE will have to argue their opinoin of "faith"... or disbelief in it. when the basic fact is that... you are merely arguing personal opinions and will therefore never agree.. b/c everyone's opinion of religion is different .. It always has been .. and always will be that way.. so give it up.. you can't expect your opinions to be understood by everyone and it is a dissapointing effort if you think otherwise.. |
| _____________________________ [Apr 16,2007 1:24pm - pam ""] I'm not looking down my nose at you, Pam. You're way back in the rear-view mirror. Stop being so bitter that I'm better than you. Wow. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were fucking retarded. That's the most idiot statement I've ever read. Nevermind, carry on. |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 1:51pm - Dwellingsickness ""] ariavette said:the thing that i find amusing in this thread is how you people keep it going by debating the same fucking arguement over and over again....let it go for fuck's sake |
| __________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 1:54pm - brian_dc ""] seems like CTB is just saying that these bands get ignored solely for the fact that they are identified in some way with a religion Doesn't seem like he said or did anything to challenge anyone's beliefs or belittle someone else's opinions. I miss my sushi farts pretty fiercely. |
| _________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 2:53pm - Agrippa ""] I think I read somwhere that sushi + beer = nuclear devastation. I think it was einstein that said that sometime after his theory of relativity. |
| _____________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 3:35pm - Josh_Martin ""] the funniest thing in this thread is it is being discussed as if Jesus was an actual person. It's fucking SANATA CLAUS people!! |
| ___________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 3:43pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] i believe in santa jesus. he died so that we could have coal in our stockings [img] |
| _______________________________ [Apr 16,2007 4:09pm - Murph ""] Josh_Martin said:the funniest thing in this thread is it is being discussed as if Jesus was an actual person. It's fucking SANATA CLAUS people!! SANATA CLAUS is much more badass than SANTA. I'm down to recognize the name change. |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 5:00pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] brian_dc said:seems like CTB is just saying that these bands get ignored solely for the fact that they are identified in some way with a religion Doesn't seem like he said or did anything to challenge anyone's beliefs or belittle someone else's opinions. EXACTLY. You just summed up everything I was saying. |
| _________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 5:09pm - babyshaker nli ""] i still blame the jews |
| ________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 8:17pm - ArrowHead NLI ""] Josh_Martin said:the funniest thing in this thread is it is being discussed as if Jesus was an actual person. It's fucking SANATA CLAUS people!! Actually, there's enough historical documentation to show that Christ was a real person or people. The debate is whether or not he was divine. And Pam, I'm not quite sure how you confuse perfect, witty, handsome, and charming with "fucking retarded". |
| _____________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 8:39pm - xanonymousx ""] brian_dc said:seems like CTB is just saying that these bands get ignored solely for the fact that they are identified in some way with a religion Doesn't seem like he said or did anything to challenge anyone's beliefs or belittle someone else's opinions. I miss my sushi farts pretty fiercely. look at underoath haste the day and as i lay dying they don't get ignored, but then again they're not true metal they are metal core. |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 8:43pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] xanonymousx said:brian_dc said:seems like CTB is just saying that these bands get ignored solely for the fact that they are identified in some way with a religion Doesn't seem like he said or did anything to challenge anyone's beliefs or belittle someone else's opinions. I miss my sushi farts pretty fiercely. look at underoath haste the day and as i lay dying they don't get ignored, but then again they're not true metal they are metal core. I don't really like any of those bands. Another point that I would like to make (and I think someone earlier mentioned this) is that being a Christian is having a faith in Jesus but playing music is different. When I'm writing lyrics with my band, I'm not looking at it like I have to convert someone with what I'm writing about. That's not my aim. I write about subjects of humanity, like greed, corruption, destruction, and hypocrisy. Some Christians in bands are not compelled to make a ministry out of their work. They may write about faith but as a personal overtone. |
| ________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 10:53pm - yummy ""] Can I still ask you if you're conquering the baphomet every so often or would I be objective? |
| _____________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 10:54pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] yummy said:Can I still ask you if you're conquering the baphomet every so often or would I be objective? With swords ablazin' :doublehorns: |
| ________________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 11:00pm - Coldnorthernvengeance ""] hey CTB, were you the queer at the 1349 gig flipping off the band |
| _____________________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 11:01pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] No, I didn't go to that show. |
| ________________________________ [Apr 16,2007 11:10pm - yummy ""] awesome |
| _____________________________________ [Apr 17,2007 9:52am - Josh_Martin ""] ArrowHead NLI said:Josh_Martin said:the funniest thing in this thread is it is being discussed as if Jesus was an actual person. It's fucking SANATA CLAUS people!! Actually, there's enough historical documentation to show that Christ was a real person or people. The debate is whether or not he was divine. I call bullshit. Show me the proof. There is no documentation dating back to the time JC supposedly walked the Earth. A gospel written by a drunk 40 - 140 years after JC supposedly got nailed is not proof to me. Especially when that period is one of the most well documented eras of ancient history. |
| _________________________________________ [Apr 17,2007 11:02am - ArrowHead NLI ""] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus http://www.creatingfutures.net/birth.html and since I'm always playing the devil's advocate, here's one that supports your own view: http://nobeliefs.com/exist.htm |
| ______________________________________ [Apr 17,2007 11:13am - xanonymousx ""] i found out that the devil wears prada is a Christian band |