Happy Fourth...especially to the idiots....i.e. Squash Fartin, Flail The Beef[views:3633][posts:70]______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 2:28pm - hoser ""] Compliments of Ben Stein Defending the Flag Ben Stein | June 30, 2006 The Fourth of July is upon us. The anniversary of the founding of this glorious country finds us in controversy, as always, and as it was intended to be. That's what democracies and republics are about: controversy. One of the controversies that came to a boil this past week and will undoubtedly have a spot in the upcoming elections is about a Constitutional amendment to ban burning Old Glory. A vote for this amendment failed by one vote very recently in the Senate, and the issue is far from over with. The argument for not burning the flag is fairly clear: it's the symbol of the nation. It represents the nation that hundreds of thousands have died for. It represents our sacred pledges to our nation. It's what we pledge allegiance to. The argument against is simply that one of our core values is free speech. Burning the flag is a form of speech, some courts have ruled, so burning it should be protected by the First Amendment, which protects free speech. Well and good, except this argument just does not hold up. We already have many exceptions to a complete protection of free speech. You can't show child pornography online. You can't call members of various ethnic groups by slurring words that were common when I was a child. That's called hate speech, and it's barred by law in most if not all parts of the nation. In some settings, you cannot tell a woman in your office that she looks sharp in her new sweater or tell a man that he has nice buns in his new trousers. That's called sexual harassment and it's been found to be illegal. In other words, there are already immense exceptions to the doctrine of free speech. What occurs to little me is that if we can tell a man he'll go to jail for calling a black man a name that any child can hear a thousand times a day on rap radio stations, why can't we say it's also a slur to people's feelings -- especially veterans' feelings -- to burn the flag? If we can tell people that it's obscene to show pictures of children having sex (and it is), why can't we say it's obscene to burn the flag that is the symbol of this shining city on a hill, a flag for which many brave men and women have died? If it hurts women's feelings to hear sex jokes at the office and if that's illegal, doesn't it also hurt patriots' feelings to see the flag burned? I don't get it. Why is protecting the flag less of a priority than banning song lyrics or dirty jokes or pornography? What am I missing here? The flag is sacred. There is more than enough state interest in protecting to keep it from being burned. Can we reconsider this, please? |
| _____________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 2:29pm - the_reverend ""] I can't wait til hoser get's drunk and then someone farts in him mouth. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 2:40pm - hoser ""] Gosh Rev....for some reason.....farts in "him" mouth makes me laugh. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 2:55pm - hoser ""] And....a gift for the Bush hating media following sheep... Again....compliments of Ben Stein...this guy is a genius... Author Bio Letter to the Editor Print This Article Email This Article About RSS Feeds Special Report More on Katrina By Ben Stein Published 9/12/2005 12:11:44 AM Fact: Katrina was a devastating storm. It left terrible damage to innocent people's lives and to property throughout the Gulf South. Fact: There have been other storms as damaging and some far more damaging. What, then, is different about this storm? Here are a few tentative thoughts. First, the incompetence of the local and state authorities in Louisiana and especially New Orleans was breathtaking. To issue a mandatory evacuation order without providing means of transport is almost criminally irresponsible. To take citizens to shelters where they would be beaten, robbed, and raped, and to provide no police protection for them was astoundingly incompetent. To allow armed gangs to shoot at rescuers was almost beyond belief. Second, the response of the federal government is described as slow, and it was slow at first. But can anyone name a natural disaster in which more federal troops, supplies, and money have been dispatched as quickly as they have been done in this disaster? Bush's response has not been unusually bad, but amazingly powerful and swift. In other hurricanes, survivors have been left for weeks on their own. In Katrina's case, the whole affected area has been covered with money and aid and troops to restore order on a scale and with speed never seen before. Third, the networks and newspapers have been quick to cry racism because so many of the victims were black. This is total nonsense. New Orleans is a mostly black city. Obviously, most of the victims of the storm would be black. No one has been able to point to a single instance in which black victims were mistreated because of their race by whites. In fact, just the opposite has happened. The whole story is of rescues and salvation by people of all races aimed at people of all races. In a gesture never seen before, the whole heart of the nation has taken in poor, bereft black families and sheltered them absolutely without regard to race. This is a mirror of the basic goodness of Americans and the disappearance of racism as an acceptable action basis of American life. It is also a measure of the total absence of racism in the heart of George W. Bush. The media may play this as a story of race versus race, but that is pure incendiary fantasy, and dangerous nonsense. What is the real story of Katrina is (I suggest) not so much that nature wrought fury on land, water, people, property, and animals, not at all anything about racism, not much about federal government incompetence. The real story is that the mainstream media rioted. They used the storm and its attendant sorrows to continue their endless attack on George W. Bush. Wildly inflated stories about the number of dead and missing, totally made up old wives' tales of racism, breathless accounts of Bush's neglect that are utterly devoid of truth and of historical context -- this is what the mainstream media gave us. The use of floating corpses, of horror stories of plagues, the sad faces of refugees, the long-faced phony accusations of intentional neglect and racism -- anything is grist for the media's endless attempts to undermine the electorate's choice last November. It is sad, but true that the media will use even the most heart breaking truths -- and then add total inventions -- to try to weaken and then evict from office a man who has done nothing wrong, but has instead turned himself inside out to help the real victims. In the meantime, George Bush does not lash out, does not attack those who falsely accuse him of the most horrible acts and neglect. Instead, he doggedly goes on helping the least among us. I don't know how he does it, but we are very lucky he does. As for truth, it eventually may be salvaged from the flooded neighborhoods of The Crescent City, but not as long as there is a lie to use to hurt an honest man trying to do the best he can, and hundreds of thousands of brave, tireless men and women who do more than point fingers and tell tales. The Katrina story is a disgrace to the people who are "reporting" it while pouring gasoline on a fire. They and their crusade against George Bush are the real stories, and they are dismal ones. |
| _________________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 2:59pm - dwellingsickness ""] Hoser...Stop drinkin, man |
| _______________________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 2:59pm - whiskey_weed_and_women ""] its funny you bring this up while samica and i were in line at stop and shop and they had the million lil flags right by we both wished for flamethrowers to not only make the line move faster but do our american freedoms justice and burn every single one of those fucking flags. also flamethrowers should be handed out to people the moment you graduate from high school. |
| _____________________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 3:01pm - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] The whole flag burning "issue" is way overblown, it's legal right now, but do you see Code Pink and their ilk burning flags all the time? Nope. We're not in the grips of some flag burning terror that threatens us all. How about politicians focus on some real issues rather than trying to score some votes this year by protecting a flag that doesn't even need protecting? |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 3:15pm - hoser ""] whiskey_weed_and_women said:its funny you bring this up while samica and i were in line at stop and shop and they had the million lil flags right by we both wished for flamethrowers to not only make the line move faster but do our american freedoms justice and burn every single one of those fucking flags. also flamethrowers should be handed out to people the moment you graduate from high school. 1st of all...Samica is a gay assed name...is she a negro...or were her parents hippies? Either way...it's a shitty name fuckstain...burn a flag in my presence and I'll feed you your own heart.....PROMISE. Not a threat....you'll do anything to get laid....so when she breaks your dumbassed heart...I'll watch you whine about it here...and I'll say..."Told you so....Idiot." |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 3:18pm - BornSoVile ""] i witnessed a $40 firework last night with 9 shots of hair rising patriotic beauty. it was beautiful. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 3:18pm - hoser ""] She's a fuckin' whore..... AND...I am drunk...but that hippie whore is still nuthin' but a simple whore. |
| _______________________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 3:22pm - whiskey_weed_and_women ""] actually you couldnt more wrong i call her samica due to her over needed obsession with metallica asshat and sorry some of us can be friends with girls and not need to fuck them. maybe youve still got a thing for her. |
| _______________________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 3:24pm - whiskey_weed_and_women ""] also ill burn several flags in front of you, please come down to the AS220 and see true american patriots in action tonight. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 3:39pm - RichHorror ""] Who wants to tell Hoser it's July 1st? |
| _______________________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 3:41pm - whiskey_weed_and_women ""] RichHorror said:Who wants to tell Hoser it's July 1st? naw rich lett'em go.....he knows what he's doing. |
| _____________________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 3:42pm - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] Happy Canada Day! |
| __________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 4:11pm - ShadowSD ""] I think you just made his head explode. |
| _____________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 4:27pm - the_reverend ""] hoser's muslim name is eye bin fartin |
| _______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 4:36pm - INFECT ""] "The Flag is a symbol of the fact that man is still a herd animal." - Albert Einstein also, "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech," |
| __________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 4:44pm - ShadowSD ""] hoser said: Defending the Flag Ben Stein | June 30, 2006 The argument against is simply that one of our core values is free speech. Burning the flag is a form of speech, some courts have ruled, so burning it should be protected by the First Amendment, which protects free speech. Well and good, except this argument just does not hold up. We already have many exceptions to a complete protection of free speech. You can't show child pornography online. Child pornography includes an implicit crime, because creating it violates the law, and the situations where it is created usually involves more serious felonies, not to mention that those who look at it are also associated with such felonies. Also, child pornography cannot have a constructive purpose. hoser said:You can't call members of various ethnic groups by slurring words that were common when I was a child. That's called hate speech, and it's barred by law in most if not all parts of the nation. That's because that kind of speech went hand in hand with murder and several other crimes for centuries. Also, ethnic slurs cannot not have a constructive purpose. hoser said:In some settings, you cannot tell a woman in your office that she looks sharp in her new sweater or tell a man that he has nice buns in his new trousers. That's called sexual harassment and it's been found to be illegal. Again, because a lot of sexual assault and harassment went unchecked until recent decades, and so harassment was associated with sexual assault. Also, sexual harassment cannot have a constructive purpose. Notice the pattern? Only if an act is primarily associated with a felony, and in no situation can have a constructive purpose, does it become illegal (excluding satiral uses, etc.) What could possibly be a constructive purpose for flag burning, you ask? Well, I just saw a very convincing one yesterday on TV, someone brought up that a a US Flag made in China would be protected under this amendment, so if a US worker wanted to protest the fact that the flag wasn't made in America by burning it, he would be arrested for it, just like a Chinese citizen would be arrested for burning the Chinese Flag in China. That's why you can't make laws against symbolism, there are too many interpretations. Child pornography is not symbolic. Ethnic slurs are not symbolic. Sexual harassment is not symbolic. But as Stein says himself, the flag IS a symbol. I also have to point out one other thing, which is that all this jingoistic "protect the flag" dick rubbing is based on the premise that to not do so is fundamentally unpatriotic. The problem is, the fact that we don't have such an amendment already suggests under that logic that every American for the past two hundred years has been unpatriotic, including the founding fathers. Or did they just overlook this? Looks like I just won Ben Stein's money. Happy Fourth of July. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:09pm - hoser ""] ShadowSD said:hoser said: Defending the Flag Ben Stein | June 30, 2006 The argument against is simply that one of our core values is free speech. Burning the flag is a form of speech, some courts have ruled, so burning it should be protected by the First Amendment, which protects free speech. Well and good, except this argument just does not hold up. We already have many exceptions to a complete protection of free speech. You can't show child pornography online. Child pornography includes an implicit crime, because creating it violates the law, and the situations where it is created usually involves more serious felonies, not to mention that those who look at it are also associated with such felonies. Also, child pornography cannot have a constructive purpose. hoser said:You can't call members of various ethnic groups by slurring words that were common when I was a child. That's called hate speech, and it's barred by law in most if not all parts of the nation. That's because that kind of speech went hand in hand with murder and several other crimes for centuries. Also, ethnic slurs cannot not have a constructive purpose. hoser said:In some settings, you cannot tell a woman in your office that she looks sharp in her new sweater or tell a man that he has nice buns in his new trousers. That's called sexual harassment and it's been found to be illegal. Again, because a lot of sexual assault and harassment went unchecked until recent decades, and so harassment was associated with sexual assault. Also, sexual harassment cannot have a constructive purpose. Notice the pattern? Only if an act is primarily associated with a felony, and in no situation can have a constructive purpose, does it become illegal (excluding satiral uses, etc.) What could possibly be a constructive purpose for flag burning, you ask? Well, I just saw a very convincing one yesterday on TV, someone brought up that a a US Flag made in China would be protected under this amendment, so if a US worker wanted to protest the fact that the flag wasn't made in America by burning it, he would be arrested for it, just like a Chinese citizen would be arrested for burning the Chinese Flag in China. That's why you can't make laws against symbolism, there are too many interpretations. Child pornography is not symbolic. Ethnic slurs are not symbolic. Sexual harassment is not symbolic. But as Stein says himself, the flag IS a symbol. I also have to point out one other thing, which is that all this jingoistic "protect the flag" dick rubbing is based on the premise that to not do so is fundamentally unpatriotic. The problem is, the fact that we don't have such an amendment already suggests under that logic that every American for the past two hundred years has been unpatriotic, including the founding fathers. Or did they just overlook this? Looks like I just won Ben Stein's money. Happy Fourth of July. So what you're saying is that you are smarter than Ben Stein? I can't wait to see him obliterate you in a debate, He'd make you look like a fool....now just admit that you're an internet hack like me and concede to defeat like John Kerry did.......a good politician knows when he's been had. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:10pm - hoser ""] Maybe you could be a speechwriter...or just remain the flaming, bloody pussy Liberal that you are. |
| _______________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:10pm - DomesticTerror ""] It's a round world we live in. and btw, i have a flag in my beroom. it was made in Thailand. probably by child laborers. 'nuff said. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:11pm - hoser ""] By the way....I love starting fires under liberal heiny's....you all dance like reggae nerds with a case of crabs. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:12pm - hoser ""] DomesticTerror said:It's a round world we live in. and btw, i have a flag in my beroom. it was made in Thailand. probably by child laborers. 'nuff said. Cheap labor rules. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:13pm - hoser ""] Welcome to Capitalism fuckface. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:14pm - hoser ""] Wambulence...Waaahhhhhaaaaaaahhhhhhaaaaaaahhhhhhhaaaaa,,, I rule...you just remain a sheep. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:16pm - hoser ""] "Ooooh...what he says goes against the metal grain....I have never heard these facts on Alternet.org!!!!" Maybe I'm misinformed...OOOOooohhhh!!! Sadness!!!!! I lose....Now I run to overdose on Methanphetamines!!!!" |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:17pm - hoser ""] :middlefinger: BING...You lose. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:18pm - hoser ""] If I lose....there will be not one single more post. |
| _______________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:22pm - DomesticTerror ""] I like my flag, i think it's pretty. i don't want to burn it. I just don't think anyone should go to jail if they burn theirs. the whole issue is ridiculous. common sense vs. idol worship. what a waste... |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:23pm - RichHorror ""] Hoser just won. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:24pm - hoser ""] DomesticTerror said:I like my flag, i think it's pretty. i don't want to burn it. I just don't think anyone should go to jail if they burn theirs. the whole issue is ridiculous. common sense vs. idol worship. what a waste... Amen.....but...I believe in RESPECT. Which is what this generation has NONE of. They are self indulged pigs. Their parents should be shot. this generation is full of self entitled pigfucks who have done nothing for anyone...they think that they're just "entitled" to everything. |
| ________________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:43pm - GoatOfCatalyst ""] I'm flogging my slave this evening just for you, Hoser. |
| _____________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 5:45pm - the_reverend ""] but today is the 1st. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 6:00pm - RichHorror ""] Hoser is on Maine time. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 6:30pm - hoser ""] Entitled pussy assfucks rule......never done nuthin fer anyone but themselves.....in my best Maine accent. What have you assholes done anyway? Name it and I shall listen....enjoy your freedom. |
| ________________________________________ [Jul 1,2006 6:38pm - GoatOfCatalyst ""] hoser said:enjoy your freedom. or Hoser's gonna take it away. PS - I <3 MAINE!!! Got a place on the water in Biddeford Pool last July for a week - SO good. (and don't even get me started on Old Orchard Beach!) |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 8:55pm - hoser ""] Biddeford? Masshole Heaven!!! Only Massholes vacation there!!! Just another license plate that we look at and laugh at. "Oh great....another Masshole....keep paying our taxes for us...thanks. My property tax remains low because Massholes find it necessary to invade our atate every holiday and act like they're from here....the gig is up...just another tourist. You idiots stop at the NH state liquor stores and drive like the idiots that you are to your destination...and the locals still laugh at you. We laugh at you assholes all the time....nice license plate .......MASS...OOH that's different...our cops eat you morons up...and we laugh every time you assclowns get pulled over. |
| ______________________________ [Jul 1,2006 8:59pm - hoser ""] Rt. 16 = Masshole moron highway. Thanks for keeping us free of idiots NH State police!!! |
| ______________________________ [Jul 2,2006 1:33am - Murph ""] I agree with your hatred of this generation's sense of entitlement; as a teacher I see it everyday and its pathetic. On the otherhand, you sense of entitlement based on the fact your conservative and white, and male, its just as ridiculous and disheartening. And that above post of Ben Stein material doesn't really sound like him at all and does not have source info. Where's it from? p.s. this dude Hoser really disgusts me. |
| _________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 1:47am - brian_dc ""] look who feels entitled to source information...I hate your sense of entitlement. Just kidding, d00d. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 3:16am - BornSoVile ""] hoser is forgetting an another important thing in life, lighting off fireworks. other than drinking and not giving a fuck, i guess he's living the dream. |
| _________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 8:46am - powerkok ""] Hoser, youve lived in Maine for 8 months!!! |
| _________________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 10:04am - GoatOfCatalyst ""] hoser said:Biddeford? Masshole Heaven!!! Only Massholes vacation there!!! Just another license plate that we look at and laugh at. "Oh great....another Masshole....keep paying our taxes for us...thanks. My property tax remains low because Massholes find it necessary to invade our atate every holiday and act like they're from here....the gig is up...just another tourist. You idiots stop at the NH state liquor stores and drive like the idiots that you are to your destination...and the locals still laugh at you. We laugh at you assholes all the time....nice license plate .......MASS...OOH that's different...our cops eat you morons up...and we laugh every time you assclowns get pulled over. Actually, butthole - I'm from Connecticut. And keep laughing - I'm certain that if you're true-blue Maine, that's a fairly busted smile in need of some serious dentistry. |
| _______________________________ [Jul 2,2006 10:38am - hoser ""] Murph said:I agree with your hatred of this generation's sense of entitlement; as a teacher I see it everyday and its pathetic. On the otherhand, you sense of entitlement based on the fact your conservative and white, and male, its just as ridiculous and disheartening. And that above post of Ben Stein material doesn't really sound like him at all and does not have source info. Where's it from? p.s. this dude Hoser really disgusts me. www.military.com....in case you still wanted that source. |
| _______________________________ [Jul 2,2006 10:38am - hoser ""] GoatOfCatalyst said:hoser said:Biddeford? Masshole Heaven!!! Only Massholes vacation there!!! Just another license plate that we look at and laugh at. "Oh great....another Masshole....keep paying our taxes for us...thanks. My property tax remains low because Massholes find it necessary to invade our atate every holiday and act like they're from here....the gig is up...just another tourist. You idiots stop at the NH state liquor stores and drive like the idiots that you are to your destination...and the locals still laugh at you. We laugh at you assholes all the time....nice license plate .......MASS...OOH that's different...our cops eat you morons up...and we laugh every time you assclowns get pulled over. Actually, butthole - I'm from Connecticut. And keep laughing - I'm certain that if you're true-blue Maine, that's a fairly busted smile in need of some serious dentistry. Hahahahahaha....I really do have a busted front tooth. |
| _______________________________ [Jul 2,2006 10:39am - hoser ""] hoser said:GoatOfCatalyst said:hoser said:Biddeford? Masshole Heaven!!! Only Massholes vacation there!!! Just another license plate that we look at and laugh at. "Oh great....another Masshole....keep paying our taxes for us...thanks. My property tax remains low because Massholes find it necessary to invade our atate every holiday and act like they're from here....the gig is up...just another tourist. You idiots stop at the NH state liquor stores and drive like the idiots that you are to your destination...and the locals still laugh at you. We laugh at you assholes all the time....nice license plate .......MASS...OOH that's different...our cops eat you morons up...and we laugh every time you assclowns get pulled over. Actually, butthole - I'm from Connecticut. And keep laughing - I'm certain that if you're true-blue Maine, that's a fairly busted smile in need of some serious dentistry. Hahahahahaha....I really do have a busted front tooth. Guys relax....I was just having fun at your expense. |
| _______________________________ [Jul 2,2006 10:40am - hoser ""] http://www.benstein.com/writing.html More source for Ben Stein....I really do love this guy. |
| __________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 10:52am - powerkok ""] hoser said:Hahahahahaha....I really do have a busted front tooth. HAHAHAHA The exact moment the moving van crossed from NH to Maine, a 1/4 of his front tooth broke off, in mutiny. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 11:23am - ShadowSD ""] hoser said:ShadowSD said:Looks like I just won Ben Stein's money. Happy Fourth of July. So what you're saying is that you are smarter than Ben Stein? No (although it's true), but I did just checkmate his flag argument from at least two directions, and using his own words to do it. I would LOVE to hear him try to outdebate the rebuttal I wrote, it's airtight; after all, if it wasn't, one of you conservatives would have already tried to pick it apart right now. I can't wait to see him obliterate you in a debate You'd be waiting a long time. The guy is smart but he doesn't think half as fast as I do; I'm way quicker on the spot than him. I would bet money that writing my reply took a fraction of the time that writing his article did. Cold calculated left-brain logic is Stein's best weapon in a debate, his only weapon in fact -- so if I can beat him on those terms (like I just did above), he has no legs to stand on. |
| __________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 11:25am - powerkok ""] You are just being anti-Semetic. |
| __________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 11:25am - powerkok ""] Racist!! |
| __________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 1:40pm - ShadowSD ""] I'm almost sure you're joking, but in case you're not, I was just describing Stein's personality, it has nothing to do with his religion (in fact, bringing up the fact that Stein is religious would make him seem less logical, not more); obviously certain people in every race and civilization have been cold, calculated, and logical. |
| ______________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:19am - Y Draig Goch ""] Fear the wrath of the Norsemen. Flags are symbols Symbols become idols Idols become gods Men become idols thus men become gods? flags become men? |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 3:58am - PatMeebles ""] It's always been my opinion that a flag, as great a symbol as it may be, is nothing more than a piece of cloth merely representing ideals. By getting offended at the burning of a flag, we become no greater than the assholes at guantanamo bay who tear shit up because someone "pissed" on their Quran. By letting the ideals become a physical entity, you make that ideal vulnerable. By keeping ideals in a purely mental entity, flag-burning becomes nothing more than a child's tempertantrum that is easily laughed at. On the other hand, I totally sympathize with the veterans' stance. |
| _____________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 3:59am - the_reverend ""] Y draig goch, your logic is flawed. Y => Z A => Z doesn't make any valid relation from Y to A. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 8:24am - Man_of_the_Century ""] ShadowSD said:That's why you can't make laws against symbolism, there are too many interpretations. Child pornography is not symbolic. Ethnic slurs are not symbolic. Sexual harassment is not symbolic. But as Stein says himself, the flag IS a symbol. Anything has or can have symbolism to it. I could say that stabbing a dog in the face is a symbol of my love for cats, and I'd go to jail for it. Kiddie porn and sexual harrasment could be a symbol for some people, even if its not for you. So, that arguement really doesn't work. But this whole thing is just a giant waste of time. I don't care if someone burns a flag, I just treat them like dog shit. Heck, If I'm drunk enough, I might punch them. If people that burn flags don't want to be treated as third-class citizens, don't burn the flag. |
| _____________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 8:56am - hungtableed ""] whiskey_weed_and_women said: its funny you bring this up while samica and i were in line at stop and shop and they had the million lil flags right by we both wished for flamethrowers to not only make the line move faster but do our american freedoms justice and burn every single one of those fucking flags. i call her samica due to her over needed obsession with metallica asshat and sorry some of us can be friends with girls and not need to fuck them. I hope I see someone exercise their right to burn a flag - I will then exercise my right of free will and break their fucking knees. I would honestly hope you would not want to fuck her, she looks more like a dude than most of us. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 11:12am - ShadowSD ""] Man_of_the_Century said:Anything has or can have symbolism to it. I could say that stabbing a dog in the face is a symbol of my love for cats, and I'd go to jail for it. Kiddie porn and sexual harrasment could be a symbol for some people, even if its not for you. So, that arguement really doesn't work. Nah, in that case, why would people like Stein or anyone else make a big deal about the flag being a symbol if anything could be? To put it more succinctly, there's a difference between a symbol and a shared symbol. Anything can be a symbol to an individual, you are correct, but when Stein mentions the flag as a symbol, he's speaking about it as a symbol that has a shared historical meaning to all of us. That is the kind of symbol I was referring to above to argue against the amendment. Damn English language with it's semantic imperfections. But this whole thing is just a giant waste of time. I don't care if someone burns a flag, I just treat them like dog shit. Heck, If I'm drunk enough, I might punch them. If people that burn flags don't want to be treated as third-class citizens, don't burn the flag. Sounds like you're not for the amendment, then (if I understand correctly); you're more for the common sense "don't be a jackass" approach. Sounds reasonable to me. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 11:17am - ShadowSD ""] PatMeebles said:It's always been my opinion that a flag, as great a symbol as it may be, is nothing more than a piece of cloth merely representing ideals. By getting offended at the burning of a flag, we become no greater than the assholes at guantanamo bay who tear shit up because someone "pissed" on their Quran. By letting the ideals become a physical entity, you make that ideal vulnerable. By keeping ideals in a purely mental entity, flag-burning becomes nothing more than a child's tempertantrum that is easily laughed at. On the other hand, I totally sympathize with the veterans' stance. Very well put, I couldn't agree more. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 11:19am - ShadowSD ""] Y Draig Goch said: Flags are symbols Symbols become idols Idols become gods Men become idols thus men become gods? I really like that... where's that from? |
| ____________________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 11:37am - Man_of_the_Century ""] ShadowSD said:Nah, in that case, why would people like Stein or anyone else make a big deal about the flag being a symbol if anything could be? To put it more succinctly, there's a difference between a symbol and a shared symbol. Anything can be a symbol to an individual, you are correct, but when Stein mentions the flag as a symbol, he's speaking about it as a symbol that has a shared historical meaning to all of us. That is the kind of symbol I was referring to above to argue against the amendment. Damn English language with it's semantic imperfections. I was more putting it out there cause symbolism can mean diffrent things to diffrent people. Like the example thrown out there about a flag made in China is burned to protest moving American business to other countries. Although I would look down at that person for doing it, I wouldn't be that mad at him for it. Its all in the context of the protest, and that context determins what the flag symbolizes. |
| ____________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 11:41am - PatMeebles ""] Even if people considered child porn or stabbing animals in the face "symbols," what matters in those instances is that the act is a grievous violation of basic rights for the victimized party. Symbolism shouldn't even enter the debate on topics like that. It's almost as stupid as when I heard Rush Limbaugh saying "well, since flag-burning is a protest against the government, we should be allowed to smoke inside government buildings. We're only protesting!" |
| ____________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 1:48pm - HailTheLeaf ""] and here I thought hoser was only borderline retarded...happy 3rd of july...which is just another fucking day like tomorrow will be. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 1:51pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] So witty and insightful... will you marry me? |
| ____________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:03pm - HailTheLeaf ""] It's too hot out to be witty and insightful, and this topic is too stupid to put forth the effort |
| ___________________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:04pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] But will you marry me? |
| _________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:14pm - ShadowSD ""] If I'm omitting anyone, speak up and correct me, but looking through this thread it seems that out of all the conservatives and liberals here, only Hoser is actually for amending the constitution to make flag burning illegal. I don't know whether to point out how poorly we are all represented by a Senate that voted 66-34 for an amendment that even a majority of conservatives here oppose, or whether to point out that the person here who posts the most about freedom on this board is the one person who supports adding the first ever amendment to the Constitution in our history made soley to limit freedoms and not expand them. |
| _________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:15pm - ShadowSD ""] (excluding prohibition, of course, which had to be canceled out by another amendment in under a decade) |
| ___________________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:24pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] ShadowSD said:If I'm omitting anyone, speak up and correct me, but looking through this thread it seems that out of all the conservatives and liberals here, only Hoser is actually for amending the constitution to make flag burning illegal. I'm not really for or against it, I don't care. So you could say its 25-1-1. |
| _________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:58pm - ShadowSD ""] ShadowSD said:I don't know whether to point out how poorly we are all represented by a Senate that voted 66-34 for an amendment that even a majority of conservatives here oppose Correction: an amendment that even a majority of conservatives are not for. |