Happy Fourth...especially to the idiots....i.e. Squash Fartin, Flail The Beef[views:3638][posts:70]__________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 11:25am - powerkok ""] You are just being anti-Semetic. |
| __________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 11:25am - powerkok ""] Racist!! |
| __________________________________ [Jul 2,2006 1:40pm - ShadowSD ""] I'm almost sure you're joking, but in case you're not, I was just describing Stein's personality, it has nothing to do with his religion (in fact, bringing up the fact that Stein is religious would make him seem less logical, not more); obviously certain people in every race and civilization have been cold, calculated, and logical. |
| ______________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:19am - Y Draig Goch ""] Fear the wrath of the Norsemen. Flags are symbols Symbols become idols Idols become gods Men become idols thus men become gods? flags become men? |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 3:58am - PatMeebles ""] It's always been my opinion that a flag, as great a symbol as it may be, is nothing more than a piece of cloth merely representing ideals. By getting offended at the burning of a flag, we become no greater than the assholes at guantanamo bay who tear shit up because someone "pissed" on their Quran. By letting the ideals become a physical entity, you make that ideal vulnerable. By keeping ideals in a purely mental entity, flag-burning becomes nothing more than a child's tempertantrum that is easily laughed at. On the other hand, I totally sympathize with the veterans' stance. |
| _____________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 3:59am - the_reverend ""] Y draig goch, your logic is flawed. Y => Z A => Z doesn't make any valid relation from Y to A. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 8:24am - Man_of_the_Century ""] ShadowSD said:That's why you can't make laws against symbolism, there are too many interpretations. Child pornography is not symbolic. Ethnic slurs are not symbolic. Sexual harassment is not symbolic. But as Stein says himself, the flag IS a symbol. Anything has or can have symbolism to it. I could say that stabbing a dog in the face is a symbol of my love for cats, and I'd go to jail for it. Kiddie porn and sexual harrasment could be a symbol for some people, even if its not for you. So, that arguement really doesn't work. But this whole thing is just a giant waste of time. I don't care if someone burns a flag, I just treat them like dog shit. Heck, If I'm drunk enough, I might punch them. If people that burn flags don't want to be treated as third-class citizens, don't burn the flag. |
| _____________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 8:56am - hungtableed ""] whiskey_weed_and_women said: its funny you bring this up while samica and i were in line at stop and shop and they had the million lil flags right by we both wished for flamethrowers to not only make the line move faster but do our american freedoms justice and burn every single one of those fucking flags. i call her samica due to her over needed obsession with metallica asshat and sorry some of us can be friends with girls and not need to fuck them. I hope I see someone exercise their right to burn a flag - I will then exercise my right of free will and break their fucking knees. I would honestly hope you would not want to fuck her, she looks more like a dude than most of us. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 11:12am - ShadowSD ""] Man_of_the_Century said:Anything has or can have symbolism to it. I could say that stabbing a dog in the face is a symbol of my love for cats, and I'd go to jail for it. Kiddie porn and sexual harrasment could be a symbol for some people, even if its not for you. So, that arguement really doesn't work. Nah, in that case, why would people like Stein or anyone else make a big deal about the flag being a symbol if anything could be? To put it more succinctly, there's a difference between a symbol and a shared symbol. Anything can be a symbol to an individual, you are correct, but when Stein mentions the flag as a symbol, he's speaking about it as a symbol that has a shared historical meaning to all of us. That is the kind of symbol I was referring to above to argue against the amendment. Damn English language with it's semantic imperfections. But this whole thing is just a giant waste of time. I don't care if someone burns a flag, I just treat them like dog shit. Heck, If I'm drunk enough, I might punch them. If people that burn flags don't want to be treated as third-class citizens, don't burn the flag. Sounds like you're not for the amendment, then (if I understand correctly); you're more for the common sense "don't be a jackass" approach. Sounds reasonable to me. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 11:17am - ShadowSD ""] PatMeebles said:It's always been my opinion that a flag, as great a symbol as it may be, is nothing more than a piece of cloth merely representing ideals. By getting offended at the burning of a flag, we become no greater than the assholes at guantanamo bay who tear shit up because someone "pissed" on their Quran. By letting the ideals become a physical entity, you make that ideal vulnerable. By keeping ideals in a purely mental entity, flag-burning becomes nothing more than a child's tempertantrum that is easily laughed at. On the other hand, I totally sympathize with the veterans' stance. Very well put, I couldn't agree more. |
| ___________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 11:19am - ShadowSD ""] Y Draig Goch said: Flags are symbols Symbols become idols Idols become gods Men become idols thus men become gods? I really like that... where's that from? |
| ____________________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 11:37am - Man_of_the_Century ""] ShadowSD said:Nah, in that case, why would people like Stein or anyone else make a big deal about the flag being a symbol if anything could be? To put it more succinctly, there's a difference between a symbol and a shared symbol. Anything can be a symbol to an individual, you are correct, but when Stein mentions the flag as a symbol, he's speaking about it as a symbol that has a shared historical meaning to all of us. That is the kind of symbol I was referring to above to argue against the amendment. Damn English language with it's semantic imperfections. I was more putting it out there cause symbolism can mean diffrent things to diffrent people. Like the example thrown out there about a flag made in China is burned to protest moving American business to other countries. Although I would look down at that person for doing it, I wouldn't be that mad at him for it. Its all in the context of the protest, and that context determins what the flag symbolizes. |
| ____________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 11:41am - PatMeebles ""] Even if people considered child porn or stabbing animals in the face "symbols," what matters in those instances is that the act is a grievous violation of basic rights for the victimized party. Symbolism shouldn't even enter the debate on topics like that. It's almost as stupid as when I heard Rush Limbaugh saying "well, since flag-burning is a protest against the government, we should be allowed to smoke inside government buildings. We're only protesting!" |
| ____________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 1:48pm - HailTheLeaf ""] and here I thought hoser was only borderline retarded...happy 3rd of july...which is just another fucking day like tomorrow will be. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 1:51pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] So witty and insightful... will you marry me? |
| ____________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:03pm - HailTheLeaf ""] It's too hot out to be witty and insightful, and this topic is too stupid to put forth the effort |
| ___________________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:04pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] But will you marry me? |
| _________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:14pm - ShadowSD ""] If I'm omitting anyone, speak up and correct me, but looking through this thread it seems that out of all the conservatives and liberals here, only Hoser is actually for amending the constitution to make flag burning illegal. I don't know whether to point out how poorly we are all represented by a Senate that voted 66-34 for an amendment that even a majority of conservatives here oppose, or whether to point out that the person here who posts the most about freedom on this board is the one person who supports adding the first ever amendment to the Constitution in our history made soley to limit freedoms and not expand them. |
| _________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:15pm - ShadowSD ""] (excluding prohibition, of course, which had to be canceled out by another amendment in under a decade) |
| ___________________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:24pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] ShadowSD said:If I'm omitting anyone, speak up and correct me, but looking through this thread it seems that out of all the conservatives and liberals here, only Hoser is actually for amending the constitution to make flag burning illegal. I'm not really for or against it, I don't care. So you could say its 25-1-1. |
| _________________________________ [Jul 3,2006 2:58pm - ShadowSD ""] ShadowSD said:I don't know whether to point out how poorly we are all represented by a Senate that voted 66-34 for an amendment that even a majority of conservatives here oppose Correction: an amendment that even a majority of conservatives are not for. |