Mark's Show Place is fucking ridiculous[views:10678][posts:92]___________________________________________ [Dec 26,2006 8:46pm - Bernie and Leigh ""] I think Bernie and Leigh should be lovers. Someone photoshop them together. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 26,2006 11:37pm - jim NLI ""] hahah. someone do this! I wish I had photoshop |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 26,2006 11:38pm - Cecchini ""] blackmetallady said:I have 4 opening acts for a big national. 3 locals that draw well and one unknown from a different state to bring diversity to the Maine Metal Scene. I don't know anyone else that does this. I'm a nice, kind person and I'm picked on. I'm not the ememy. your not a kind person, your an ignorant and simple minded baffoon who initially came here to drag a bunch of bands into some pointless and childish squabble you had with another group in maine and when that didn't work you got all pissy. also you call everyone a hobby rocker who basically "isn't in it for the money", when in reality your term of hobby rockers are the people who keep music pure by not doing things for money/fame/others, but for themselves. i find it amusing that you talk about bands being "in it for the music" when in reality its "in it for the music business". but you know what? all that would be fine and dandy, the big problem with you is that you wipe your ass after taking a shit like a thousand other promoters in this area do and you think you deserve some sort of martyr status or a gold medal, get over yourself you are not that important. |
| ________________________________ [Dec 26,2006 11:55pm - yummy ""] Musicians=people who pay to play, Hobby rockers=fuck you? I get it. |
| ________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 1:20am - Kevord ""] Didn't Metallica do it through tape trading? |
| _____________________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 1:34am - DrinkHardThrashHard ""] Yes. Tape trading and having pretty amazing music once upon a time, music they could pull off live pretty well. |
| ________________________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 1:50am - mark fucking richards ""] i've said it a million times, but i will stress again--as many have already said in this thread--that the pay-to-play policy is absolutely ridiculous. that whole "pay to play can WORK FOR U" post is just propaganda to make it seem like a get rich quick scheme. you forgot to add that if you don't sell enough tickets, you will either not play or have to put up a lot of money that could have been used for something more worthwhile. there is nothing you can say to oppose this argument that can be justified. you could say "well if you can't sell the tickets then you might not be good enough." OR you could think of the REAL reason: there are many, many people against pay to play (as we've seen in this thread and many others), there are many people who are not old enough to enter these shows that would be willing to pay, and there are also many, many, many people who would go to the show, but won't really make it definite until the last minute. think of it this way: would you spend $15 or more on an event that you may have to skip out on at last minute because you or a loved one is in need of medical care or your car breaks down? sure, $15 may not be much to some, but most people have so many bills and have to put gas in their car, buy food, etc. that $15 is not very expendable. there are many other aspects to factor in, but those would be the bulk of it. |
| _____________________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:02am - DrinkHardThrashHard ""] Considering that many of the best bands I've ever seen have had extremely small crowds (often 10 or less people), I can honestly say that the quality of a band has very little to do with its popularity or live draw. For example, my clear favorite local live bands draw very few people (no names), and I've seen dogshit, dime-a-dozen metalcore bands that can draw 120 bored kids from their high school circle of friends with no problem. Promoters want to make money, granted. That is the nature of the beast. But assuming reasonable promotion for a show has been made, national bands should be able to cover their own cost, especially with a well-assembled, fitting support bill. Making bands that desperately need exposure carry that weight just isn't cool. It never has been. I'm just thankful we've got some promoters around here like Joe, Rich, Alex, etc who book bands they believe in. |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:08am - MadOakDevin ""] all the shows at mark's seem be gay metal bands with extraordinally high guarentees. fuck those touring bands man. shows shouldn't be $15. If those bands can draw in enough people to keep the show cost down to something normal, they shouldn't be expecting to make that much on the road. 2ndly nh sucks. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 5:48am - powerkok ""] I havent been keeping up with much of the Blackmetallady/Pam/95% of rttpers, but I just read this, and I have this to add: 1. There is no way in fuck, that BML has listened to even 50% of rttp bands. So, when you say things like shitty rttp bands, etc, it will probably rub some of us (in bands) the wrong way. 2. Hobby Rocker, as Accursed Drummer said, is very insulting. If I added up all the sacrifices, that my band and I, family and close friends, have made, it would add up to YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars. What hobby in the world could amount to that? And, thats just one aspect of it. 3. pay to play sucks. Im not saying this against Marks, because weve had good relations with Bernie, and enjoy playing there. Yes, there is an oppurtunity to make a little cash if you sell every ticket, but lets be realistic, if you DONT sell every ticket, you pay out of your own pocket. That SUCKS. Loading, unloading, gas, beer and a 30 minute set of the most draining, exhausting music on the planet (death metal in general), and now I have to pay the fucking club??!! Only a fool could dispute this. 4. NH dosent suck. 5. Booking bands you believe in can lead to cliques and/or repetitive lineups. Mix it up, take (reasonable) chances, and give an out of state band a show once in a while. Im done for now. |
| ___________________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 7:45am - Two-Sided Season ""] powerkok said: 5. Booking bands you believe in can lead to cliques and/or repetitive lineups. Mix it up, take (reasonable) chances, and give an out of state band a show once in a while. Im done for now. She does, didn't you read her post? |
| __________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 8:48am - SteveOTB ""] Seriously I can't wait to get out of MA/NH for shows. Drifters was our place to play for all ages shit but I think they're closing down plus I believe we're banned anyway after the Mosh 'n Roll cover we did for shits and giggles and we're never offered hall shows I'm guessing because we're not straight up hardcore. I like hardcore and all but it seems like no matter who I talk to no one is willing to even give us a shot because we don't exactly fit in with the scene. Hell I can't even book hall shows because everyone is so hush hush with information or places don't book shows because of incidents that went down. We can't really play 21+ shows because our guitarist is 17 and anything over 18+ we never draw. It sucks, we're basically stuck between a rock and a hard place. I blame MA/NH for their stupid laws. That's my rant for the day. |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 8:49am - Josh_Martin ""] The only thing gayer than pay-to-play is people who defend that jewbag way of doing business. Promoters who don't have enough confidence in themselves to do things the right way should get out of the fucking business. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 10:52am - powerkok ""] Two-Sided Season said:powerkok said: 5. Booking bands you believe in can lead to cliques and/or repetitive lineups. Mix it up, take (reasonable) chances, and give an out of state band a show once in a while. Im done for now. She does, didn't you read her post? No, didnt you read mine? |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 11:00am - powerkok ""] powerkok said:I havent been keeping up with much of the Blackmetallady/Pam/95% of rttpers..... |
| ________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 11:04am - aeser ""] pay to play is the most desperate pathetic thing i can think of doing, and lets for a moment examine the excuses sheisty cheapskates give to justify this: 1: "oh you're an unknown band and this is a chance to get some precious exposure" yea, you're unknown, the best way to get known is to WRITE SOME GOOD FUCKING MUSIC AND RECORD AND RELEASE IT EITHER YOURSELF OR ON A LABEL IF YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE ONE ASK YOU TO DO A RECORD, and playing a lot of shows where you don't get total bitch timeslots, you don't get big by paying to open for some huge headliner because guess what, people couldn't give a shit about your band and most won't even show up till you're done playing because %99.9999999 of the time opening bands suck and people are there to see headliners, not you, if you happen to kick so much ass that you WOULD get anywhere off playing that ONE show opening for a national, then you can also make a name for yourself playing smaller shows on a regular basis and getting your records out there, and that $375 or $1000 or whatever ridiculous ammount buys some decent studio time and or pays for cd pressing, so you decide which is better to spend your money on 2: "oh well you can just sell tickets and make your money back" what schmuck buys tickets to a show from some random band? people buy them from the venue or ticketmaster or whatever the fuck, no ones gonna give YOU the same ammount of money they'd pay the venue itself, you are going to get stuck with the tickets, count it as a loss, the best you can do is offer them at half price or some goddamn incentive for your friends to buy them from you vs. the venue itself if your venue cannot draw enough people to pay the bands their guarentee and make enough of a profit on top of it and on drinks to make it worthwhile to stay open you're fucking up somehow, either by not drawing enough people, or by guarenteeing a band the ammount of money you guarenteed them. marks has a ridiculously sick sound system and enough space for decent sized shows, and at least says they spend $100,000 a year on promotion, which all makes sense for huge shows, the only thing i can think of going against it is it's location, the middle of nowhere in bedford nh you have this major venue, and people in new hampshire just plain don't go to shows (with a handfull of exceptions, like the rev of course who's at every goddamn show that occurs anywhere in new england). people in NH are more likely to go to a show in boston or worcester than a show in their backyard for some reason, which i saw repeatedly in the 10+ years i lived there, whereas you look at vermont or maine or of course boston and worcester and people do bother to go to shows in their own area. |
| ___________________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 11:05am - Dwellingsickness ""] powerkok said: 5. Booking bands you believe in can lead to cliques and/or repetitive lineups. Mix it up, take (reasonable) chances, and give an out of state band a show once in a while. Im done for now. Mark's is the king of repetitive lineups, The Dark Funeral and Unleashed shows are the first I seen in a while at Mark's that have different bands opening. |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 11:09am - C4R4C4LLA ""] promoter/booking agent: "well if your band cant sell at least 25 tickets that means to us that your not ready to play at our venue." this is normal for large venues. booking agents are not trying to make friends they are trying to make money. |
| ___________________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 11:17am - Dwellingsickness ""] The Bombshelter did way better in my opinion BEFORE the mandatory ticket sales bullshit. Attendance was always good. Having to sell tix is gay, But I can understand both sides of this argument. |
| ______________________________ [Dec 27,2006 11:24am - pam ""] I understand why venues do it, I don't understand why bands do it. Yeah you might get some exposure, but not enough to make the money worth it. As far as most people are concerned those opening bands are just in the way of the headliner they came to see. |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 11:32am - SteveOTB ""] aeser said:pay to play is the most desperate pathetic thing i can think of doing, and lets for a moment examine the excuses sheisty cheapskates give to justify this: 1: "oh you're an unknown band and this is a chance to get some precious exposure" yea, you're unknown, the best way to get known is to WRITE SOME GOOD FUCKING MUSIC AND RECORD AND RELEASE IT EITHER YOURSELF OR ON A LABEL IF YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE ONE ASK YOU TO DO A RECORD, and playing a lot of shows where you don't get total bitch timeslots, you don't get big by paying to open for some huge headliner because guess what, people couldn't give a shit about your band and most won't even show up till you're done playing because %99.9999999 of the time opening bands suck and people are there to see headliners, not you, if you happen to kick so much ass that you WOULD get anywhere off playing that ONE show opening for a national, then you can also make a name for yourself playing smaller shows on a regular basis and getting your records out there, and that $375 or $1000 or whatever ridiculous ammount buys some decent studio time and or pays for cd pressing, so you decide which is better to spend your money on 2: "oh well you can just sell tickets and make your money back" what schmuck buys tickets to a show from some random band? people buy them from the venue or ticketmaster or whatever the fuck, no ones gonna give YOU the same ammount of money they'd pay the venue itself, you are going to get stuck with the tickets, count it as a loss, the best you can do is offer them at half price or some goddamn incentive for your friends to buy them from you vs. the venue itself You make a very valid point. The only good thing that came out of playing the Cattle Decapitation show was when we got off stage the guys from CD came up to use and said we were fucking awesome and we all hung out and played pool. Other than that no one really cared. I think the best way for us is to play as many shows as possible, promote the band every chance I can get, try to make some contacts, and talk to a small indie label about putting out an album for us. That's all I can really think of doing that would work for us in the long run. We just signed an endorsement deal with No Fear Clothing which is our first endorsement so maybe that'll help us gain some exposure as well. What it comes down to is that you just need to bust your ass if you want to get anywhere. Just like any company you start from the ground and build your way up, being in a band and shooting for success is no different. |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 12:18pm - porphyria ""] powerkok said: 2. Hobby Rocker, as Accursed Drummer said, is very insulting. If I added up all the sacrifices, that my band and I, family and close friends, have made, it would add up to YEARS and THOUSANDS of dollars. IMO most of us are 'hobby rockers' or 'weekend warriors' as hooker put it...unless we're professional musicians/tour constantly as a main job. nothing wrong with it as long as you're having fun, it doesn't mean you can't be just as passionate about it as a 'pro'. people spend thousands of dollars on hobbies and most of the time don't break even to make any sort of profit. for example, aaron has put so much into this site from gas money to shows, hosting, computer equipment, and most importantly his TIME...and do you think he really makes any money from it? nope. |
| ______________________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 12:26pm - DrinkHardThrashHard ""] It's the truth. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 27,2006 1:07pm - Hoser ""] Powerkok....very well put, sir. Speaking of...when are we practicing next? |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:05pm - Josh_Martin ""] This is amazing. The hatred of Horseface has brought all of us together. I am finding myself on the same side as people I've had massive flame wars with in the past. At least that stupid ugly bitch is good for something |
| __________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:07pm - pam nli ""] Josh_Martin said:This is amazing. The hatred of Horseface has brought all of us together. I am finding myself on the same side as people I've had massive flame wars with in the past. At least that stupid ugly bitch is good for something hahah, it's so true. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:10pm - yummy ""] Fuck you Josh! Sorry...it just felt good to make my first derogatory statement. Timing is everything |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:10pm - Josh_Martin ""] Someone should book an anti-Horseface show and have all of us "hobby rockers" play. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:12pm - yummy ""] I'm down, not so much on the anti-horseface part, but the hobby rocker part...sure. |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:14pm - Josh_Martin ""] yummy said:I'm down, not so much on the anti-horseface part, You're out. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:14pm - pam nli ""] Josh_Martin said:Someone should book an anti-Horseface show and have all of us "hobby rockers" play. That would be outstanding. You could use the still of the video someone made of her getting railed by a horse for the flier. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:18pm - yummy ""] I just think it would go without saying that it would be against her. Plus putting her name on the flyer would still be giving attention to her. Bad pubilicity is still publicity? |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:20pm - Josh_Martin ""] No one outside of the board would know who "Horseface" is. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:20pm - Sinistas ""] the "hobby rocker" comment last night almost made me pass out. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:20pm - yummy ""] What would be awesome is if Goatwhore headlined. |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:22pm - Josh_Martin ""] yummy said:What would be awesome is if Goatwhore headlined. Ben is too nice a guy. Even if he realizes how much she sucks he's too nice to say anything. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:22pm - yummy ""] although it would defeat the purpose I think the irony would be outstanding. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:23pm - pam nli ""] Sinistas said:the "hobby rocker" comment last night almost made me pass out. That was awesome. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 27,2006 2:23pm - yummy ""] I agree there. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 27,2006 3:22pm - Hoser ""] Hobby Rocker Fest 2007 Someone book this. Right fucking now. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 27,2006 3:57pm - yummy ""] there ya go |
| ___________________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 4:04pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] make sure you book all those bands that she's "friends with" (ie RAOV, Zircon, etc) then send her a nice invitation. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 27,2006 4:07pm - powerkok ""] Im down! |