Owning a Venue / Bar with mostly metal shows
[views:37089][posts:239]____________________________________
[Sep 3,2008 10:31am - GodlessRob ""]
Yea, no over 21 rule for bands, over 18 yes.
[Sep 3,2008 11:01am - ouchdrummer ""]
Martins said:Please no satanism. That just feeds into the metal stereotype that mostly isn't true. If God doesn't exist, neither does Satan.
i dont want to start a silly religious arguement, but most forms of "Satanism" does not worship a dark lord. There are some kinds that do, but they are silly. Its basically a set of life guidelines that arent dictated by the fear of eternal darkness, but instead dictated by the fact that we're here for a short period of time, then POOF, its over. You should do some reading before you assume every metal head that says they're are satanic is an idiot worshiping a silly devil character that doesn't exist. Most satanics are agnostics/athiests as well, and just use term satanic because it applies to them, and gets the point ac across. I know its strange, but check it out.
LaVeyan Satanism
Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan. Gilmore took over the church from Blanche Barton, Anton LaVey's partner and the former High Priestess.
Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan. Gilmore took over the church from Blanche Barton, Anton LaVey's partner and the former High Priestess.
Main article: LaVeyan Satanism
LaVeyan satanists believe that Satan is a metaphor that represents the natural urges of mankind. The term LaVeyan Satanist or symbolic Satanist, is used by other Satanists to refer to supporters of the writings of Church of Satan founder Anton Szandor LaVey and successors such as Peter H. Gilmore.[6] Use of the word Satanism in this context, according to religioustolerance.org, refers to a "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies.[7]
Modern Satanism
Modern Satanism is the observance and practice of Satanic religious beliefs, philosophies and customs. [3] In this interpretation of Satanism, the Satanist does not worship Satan in the theistic sense, but is an adversary to all spiritual creeds, espousing hedonism, materialism, Randian Objectivism, antinomianism, suitheism, Nietzschean and some Crowleyan philosophy and anti-theism. Modern Satanists are also sometimes referred to as symbolic Satanists and are often ignored by members of other Satanic sects due to lacking research endeavors of some Satanists. [4]
and yes, i do happen to fall closely to either of these in my belief set. (or lack thereof.)
[Sep 3,2008 11:02am - ouchdrummer ""]
and oh yeah, i would def help with the club. I was an exec chef for 10 years.. hmmm??
[Sep 3,2008 11:05am - ouchdrummer ""]
and boston isnt that expensive, downtown is yeah, but if people can go to shady parts of worchester for metal, why couldnt they come into shady boston. like maybe dorchester, or roxbury, or even slightly more north shore, like malden/everett/saugus. -that area is great, and real cheap.
[Sep 3,2008 11:06am - Conservationist ""]
ouchdrummer said:i dont want to start a silly religious arguement, but most forms of "Satanism" does not worship a dark lord.
Satan in metal is mostly metaphorical.
He represents independence from the God-principle, a rebellion against morality.
Hence most Satanist movements are a rebellion against Judeo-Christian morality, like a hybrid between sexual liberation, Libertarianism and Ayn Rand style objectivism.
I'd just read Nietzsche. He has all of the good that the above do, more coherently, but also provides for some aspect of civilization.
You could add Burroughs to the pile, since he has some insightful things to say about society in Naked Lunch (and probably other places -- check his genitals).
[Sep 3,2008 11:10am - ouchdrummer ""]
thank you sir, i knew i could count on some heretic support from you. too bad you missed Origin last night, it was silly.
[Sep 3,2008 11:21am - aril ""]
I dont know about starting out in the city - everything costs more. the ultimate goal would be to open something up there, though.
there's just so many things that require lots of funding: LL, Sprinklers, real estate, renovations, supplies, liquor, staffing, food, equipment, etc. It's too bad it's very expensive, but that's the risk that has to be taken with this stuff.
[Sep 3,2008 11:48am - darkwor ""]
the ultimate metal mecca for bands and shows has been a dream of mine for a while. a practice space with a bar/club in the same building that serves cheap to classy beer and food and has a great show around twice a week. it would take a LOT of work to do this from funding to construction to the finer details but looking at this thread it is very possible and i know a lot of people would support. i see a building on the way home from work under 290 in worcester every day and i just want it to be mine.
[Sep 3,2008 11:56am - darkwor ""]
and we all know that if the spirit of satan is not in the metal, then it's just something else.
[Sep 3,2008 12:40pm - ouchdrummer ""]
darkwor said:the ultimate metal mecca for bands and shows has been a dream of mine for a while. a practice space with a bar/club in the same building that serves cheap to classy beer and food and has a great show around twice a week. it would take a LOT of work to do this from funding to construction to the finer details but looking at this thread it is very possible and i know a lot of people would support. i see a building on the way home from work under 290 in worcester every day and i just want it to be mine.
worchester already has alot of metal though. GIVE IT TO BOSTON!
[Sep 3,2008 12:42pm - FuckIsMySignature ""]
"WORCESTER"
[Sep 3,2008 12:57pm - aril ""]
Raynham actually isn't a bad location. This place that Rob mentioned is RIGHT off the highway (Rt. 24) and it simple to get to.
Problem is, for those of you in the northshore/NH it will be about 45-1:15+ drive, depending on where you are. It's about 15 minutes from Brockton.
[Sep 3,2008 1:27pm - orgymf@work ""]
if you will help me get the liscensing and equiptment for it, i will make beer for your club.
my homebrews = strong and tasty.
big scale brewing = more fun, easier to sterilize/sanitize
[Sep 3,2008 1:29pm - orgymf@work ""]
ouchdrummer said:
darkwor said:the ultimate metal mecca for bands and shows has been a dream of mine for a while. a practice space with a bar/club in the same building that serves cheap to classy beer and food and has a great show around twice a week. it would take a LOT of work to do this from funding to construction to the finer details but looking at this thread it is very possible and i know a lot of people would support. i see a building on the way home from work under 290 in worcester every day and i just want it to be mine.
worchester already has alot of metal though. GIVE IT TO BOSTON!
i agree, fuck Worcester....if you're not gonna use the old Jarrod's building....Boston (or near it) would be way better.
[Sep 3,2008 1:30pm - aril ""]
so, wait... is the jarrod's building just sitting there?
[Sep 3,2008 1:35pm - orgymf@work ""]
yes
[Sep 3,2008 1:35pm - orgymf@work ""]
as far as i know, the bar and stage are still standing too
[Sep 3,2008 1:36pm - aril ""]
Hmm...
[Sep 3,2008 1:42pm - SacreligionNLI ""]
ouchdrummer said:worchester already has alot of metal though. GIVE IT TO BOSTON!
you're kidding, right? the only metal in worcester is metal thursday.
anywho, there's like a 5 year waiting list for liquor licenses in worcester from what i've been told, and i'm sure it's not easier anywhere else. damn states with their regulations.
[Sep 3,2008 1:45pm - Godlessrob ""]
The town took it away from jarrod, what do they call that...imminent domain. they have it ear-marked to become a parking lot for the condos. Plus Attleboro PD hated that place. I used to live there a few years ago before I bought my house, oh sorry moved in with my parents.
[Sep 3,2008 1:50pm - Martins ""]
ouchdrummer said:
Martins said:Please no satanism. That just feeds into the metal stereotype that mostly isn't true. If God doesn't exist, neither does Satan.
i dont want to start a silly religious arguement, but most forms of "Satanism" does not worship a dark lord. There are some kinds that do, but they are silly. Its basically a set of life guidelines that arent dictated by the fear of eternal darkness, but instead dictated by the fact that we're here for a short period of time, then POOF, its over. You should do some reading before you assume every metal head that says they're are satanic is an idiot worshiping a silly devil character that doesn't exist. Most satanics are agnostics/athiests as well, and just use term satanic because it applies to them, and gets the point ac across. I know its strange, but check it out.
LaVeyan Satanism
Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan. Gilmore took over the church from Blanche Barton, Anton LaVey's partner and the former High Priestess.
Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan. Gilmore took over the church from Blanche Barton, Anton LaVey's partner and the former High Priestess.
Main article: LaVeyan Satanism
LaVeyan satanists believe that Satan is a metaphor that represents the natural urges of mankind. The term LaVeyan Satanist or symbolic Satanist, is used by other Satanists to refer to supporters of the writings of Church of Satan founder Anton Szandor LaVey and successors such as Peter H. Gilmore.[6] Use of the word Satanism in this context, according to religioustolerance.org, refers to a "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies.[7]
Modern Satanism
Modern Satanism is the observance and practice of Satanic religious beliefs, philosophies and customs. [3] In this interpretation of Satanism, the Satanist does not worship Satan in the theistic sense, but is an adversary to all spiritual creeds, espousing hedonism, materialism, Randian Objectivism, antinomianism, suitheism, Nietzschean and some Crowleyan philosophy and anti-theism. Modern Satanists are also sometimes referred to as symbolic Satanists and are often ignored by members of other Satanic sects due to lacking research endeavors of some Satanists. [4]
and yes, i do happen to fall closely to either of these in my belief set. (or lack thereof.)
Well, okay. Like I said, Satan doesn't exist...which is what you are basically saying too. I'm just saying that religion OR anti-religion doesn't need to be brought into a musical establishment. I'm into metal for the music and the people not the images or beliefs they portray.
[Sep 3,2008 2:17pm - orgymf@work ""]
Godlessrob said:The town took it away from jarrod, what do they call that...imminent domain. they have it ear-marked to become a parking lot for the condos. Plus Attleboro PD hated that place. I used to live there a few years ago before I bought my house, oh sorry moved in with my parents.
fuck, i knew the building was still standing, i didn't realise they took it from the dude so they could tear it down and make it a parking lot, that's fuckin gay.
that's too bad, i miss havin a place where i can see a good band on stage without having to drive and then stumble home drunk.
and that Imminent Domain shit just sucks.
someone gets fucked out of their livelihood.....no money offered, so assholes who live in condos don't have to pay for a parking spot
[Sep 3,2008 2:22pm - ouchdrummer ""]
SacreligionNLI said:
ouchdrummer said:worchester already has alot of metal though. GIVE IT TO BOSTON!
you're kidding, right? the only metal in worcester is metal thursday.
anywho, there's like a 5 year waiting list for liquor licenses in worcester from what i've been told, and i'm sure it's not easier anywhere else. damn states with their regulations.
maybe i'm crazy, but doesnt the palladium have 80% of all the big metal shows that come through this state?
[Sep 3,2008 2:24pm - ouchdrummer ""]
Martins said:
ouchdrummer said:
Martins said:Please no satanism. That just feeds into the metal stereotype that mostly isn't true. If God doesn't exist, neither does Satan.
i dont want to start a silly religious arguement, but most forms of "Satanism" does not worship a dark lord. There are some kinds that do, but they are silly. Its basically a set of life guidelines that arent dictated by the fear of eternal darkness, but instead dictated by the fact that we're here for a short period of time, then POOF, its over. You should do some reading before you assume every metal head that says they're are satanic is an idiot worshiping a silly devil character that doesn't exist. Most satanics are agnostics/athiests as well, and just use term satanic because it applies to them, and gets the point ac across. I know its strange, but check it out.
LaVeyan Satanism
Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan. Gilmore took over the church from Blanche Barton, Anton LaVey's partner and the former High Priestess.
Peter H. Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan. Gilmore took over the church from Blanche Barton, Anton LaVey's partner and the former High Priestess.
Main article: LaVeyan Satanism
LaVeyan satanists believe that Satan is a metaphor that represents the natural urges of mankind. The term LaVeyan Satanist or symbolic Satanist, is used by other Satanists to refer to supporters of the writings of Church of Satan founder Anton Szandor LaVey and successors such as Peter H. Gilmore.[6] Use of the word Satanism in this context, according to religioustolerance.org, refers to a "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies.[7]
Modern Satanism
Modern Satanism is the observance and practice of Satanic religious beliefs, philosophies and customs. [3] In this interpretation of Satanism, the Satanist does not worship Satan in the theistic sense, but is an adversary to all spiritual creeds, espousing hedonism, materialism, Randian Objectivism, antinomianism, suitheism, Nietzschean and some Crowleyan philosophy and anti-theism. Modern Satanists are also sometimes referred to as symbolic Satanists and are often ignored by members of other Satanic sects due to lacking research endeavors of some Satanists. [4]
and yes, i do happen to fall closely to either of these in my belief set. (or lack thereof.)
Well, okay. Like I said, Satan doesn't exist...which is what you are basically saying too. I'm just saying that religion OR anti-religion doesn't need to be brought into a musical establishment. I'm into metal for the music and the people not the images or beliefs they portray.
i was just informing you that all satanists dont actually worship satan. thats all. And i totally agree, why would you have a club with any sorta religious affiliation, it would just alienate most of your patrons.
[Sep 3,2008 2:28pm - Martins ""]
Now that we've got that settled, teach me about psychedelics haha.
[Sep 3,2008 2:30pm - ouchdrummer ""]
word. will do. hit me up in an email and ask whatever you want.
[Sep 3,2008 2:38pm - aril ""]
any bar that is 'metal' by design will automatically be rumoured to be a "satan worshiping" place. for the people that don't know much about metal, everything is automatically assumed as such. that is inevitable; it's bound to happen. and who cares. the primary focus would be on music, fun, and beer. people can associate it with whatever they want.
[Sep 3,2008 3:53pm - sigh ""]
It's always a risky idea trying to make money with something metal related. That being said, don't forget that It needs good food to go with that beer and mayhem. A metal bar/grille venue would own.
[Sep 3,2008 3:56pm - aril ""]
we're smart enough people and can figure out how to make profit.
one of the key factors is location though, which is one of the hardest things to find.
[Sep 3,2008 4:02pm - sigh ""]
well you could only hire attractive young ladies to serve said food and beer, but I think they have discrimination laws to prevent that. Hire one fat chick and keep her in the back to do the dishes. Problem solved.
[Sep 3,2008 4:02pm - blue ""]
i know ive missed most of this thread, and dont want to be a party pooper but doing a mostly metal shows venue will pretty much guarantee low draws for every show. remember a couple years ago in boston how there were metal shows like every other week? the attendances were not that hot during the time. but now that the shows are more stretched out the draws have been a lot better.
not trying to deter you, this is something ive contemplated doing for a few years now. but if you really want to make sure youve got a safe bet, doing very frequent metal shows at a 'metal venue' is not going to get you very far IMO.
[Sep 3,2008 4:06pm - benfo ""]
A problem solver for that could be cover bands. I'm doing a 90's hard rock / grunge / alt metal cover band and its a lot better than marketing a death metal band.
[Sep 3,2008 4:07pm - aril ""]
sadly, blue, you're right, and that's the reality of things. we're all going to have to put our heads together and figure out the best way to do this, and how often shows should be had there, etc. it's just going to require planning.
[Sep 3,2008 4:08pm - aril ""]
we could have a stuffed pedobear in the window.
[Sep 3,2008 4:22pm - orgymf@work ""]
i think an all rock/metal/heavy music club would work fine
just needs variety
have a jukebox filled with all types of metal, hard rock, punk etc.
and on nights when there aren't any shows, people can just get wasted, listen to good music, eat pub grub, and play darts/pool/video games
on nights when there are shows, do something different every time.
have a punk show
then next show a cover band or two
then all black metal
then all thrash
then metal karoke
then all crust/fast hardcore/old school grind
then brutal death
then hard rock
then goregrind
etc. etc.
i think you could do very well, if you book strategically
[Sep 3,2008 4:24pm - orgymf@work ""]
oh.....and if it's possible, set up an enclosed outdoor space where people can legally bring their drinks when they go for a smoke....most smokers love that.
[Sep 3,2008 4:27pm - mOe ""]
nah, i think the idea is to have certain nights that arent "FUCKING METAL/PUNK BRAH!!"
have a dance club night
a college night (depending on the location)
its better to just own a club that does weekly/bi-weekly metal shows than a METAL CLUB
METAL CLUB = good way to not make that much money
[Sep 3,2008 4:28pm - blue ""]
^ what the negro said
[Sep 3,2008 4:33pm - orgymf@work ""]
i don't really agree.
i think there is enough of a metal scene in New England that if you had a place that only catered fans of rock and metal, you would make plenty of cash.
just need
good variety (musically)
good food
good beer
good location
good advertising
good c.d.'s in the jukebox
and lots of extra entertainment (eg. t.v.'s running horror flicks with subtitles.....or unimportant dialogue.... video games/pinball, darts, pool etc.)
it may be a challenge....but if you advertise right, and find an excellent location (the closer to public transit, the better), it could be a success....
anything is fuckin possible
[Sep 3,2008 4:33pm - aril ""]
Or, you could heavily focus on the bar aspect of it and have shows sparingly.
I wouldn't mind having stuff quasi-related to metal (karoke, hair metal nights, punk, crust, irish folk bands, and so on). but dance club night? fuck that.
out of respect for the fellow musicians and the "scene" (if you want to call it that), a dance club night should NOT happen, regardless if it brings a crowd or not. there's other themes/ideas that would bring crowds.
[Sep 3,2008 4:36pm - orgymf@work ""]
aril said:Or, you could heavily focus on the bar aspect of it and have shows sparingly.
I wouldn't mind having stuff quasi-related to metal (karoke, hair metal nights, punk, crust, irish folk bands, and so on). but dance club night? fuck that.
out of respect for the fellow musicians and the "scene" (if you want to call it that), a dance club night should NOT happen, regardless if it brings a crowd or not. there's other themes/ideas that would bring crowds.
i agree....fuck dance night!!!!
also, i only use the words "New England Metal Scene" for lack of a better short descriptive of "bands, musicians, and fans of metal/punk/rock/grind in new england"
[Sep 3,2008 4:40pm - mOe ""]
orgymf@work said:i don't really agree.
i think there is enough of a metal scene in New England that if you had a place that only catered fans of rock and metal, you would make plenty of cash.
just need
good variety (musically)
good food
good beer
good location
good advertising
good c.d.'s in the jukebox
and lots of extra entertainment (eg. t.v.'s running horror flicks with subtitles.....or unimportant dialogue.... video games/pinball, darts, pool etc.)
it may be a challenge....but if you advertise right, and find an excellent location (the closer to public transit, the better), it could be a success....
anything is fuckin possible
I agree with you there and thats an awesome way to look at it. But the economy is in the shitter right now and is only gonna get worse. Unless you've got a rediculous amount of seed money and an amazing location, I just DONT see that working out too well. But hey, I'm just a negro.
*shuffles feet*
[Sep 3,2008 4:49pm - aril ""]
well, I work for an insurance company and we used to write the Black Rose, etc. We got a submission for Great Scott but it got declined, can't remember why. But we write the MiddleEast, Lupo's, etc. Now I'm not saying much about it online(not supposed to) and I'm not saying if this is to happen, it'd be the next MiddleEast, but you'd be surprised how much profit they make during metal shows - on alcohol alone.
[Sep 3,2008 4:51pm - orgymf@work ""]
yeah i suppose from an economic standpoint, it is a huge risk, unless you have expendable cash.
oh well....
maybe someday, one of us will come into such a situation where that is possible
[Sep 3,2008 4:52pm - mOe ""]
Oh, i know about the bar aspect of metal shows, and all shows in general. Which is why it perplexes me when venues dont allow local bands to play who cant draw more than 100 people.
[Sep 3,2008 4:53pm - orgymf@work ""]
aril said:well, I work for an insurance company and we used to write the Black Rose, etc. We got a submission for Great Scott but it got declined, can't remember why. But we write the MiddleEast, Lupo's, etc. Now I'm not saying much about it online(not supposed to) and I'm not saying if this is to happen, it'd be the next MiddleEast, but you'd be surprised how much profit they make during metal shows - on alcohol alone.haha....yeah metal shows, and comedy shows usually = shitloads of alcohol sales
[Sep 3,2008 4:58pm - aril ""]
it wouldn't make much sense to overdo the extreme metal shows.. but it would be cool to do it as much as possible where it's possible to at least make a profit.
the bottom line is, you either have to be creative and flexible with the whole "metal" type theme if this thing is to stay in business. Duff's is cool beacuse it's in NYC. If you compare NYC to some dinky town in MA, it doesn't compare.
I think this stuff is possible to be planned out to the point where profit is being made - but as far as starting it? It's going to require funds and lots of it. Which sucks.
[Sep 3,2008 5:17pm - ouchdrummer ""]
benfo said:A problem solver for that could be cover bands. I'm doing a 90's hard rock / grunge / alt metal cover band and its a lot better than marketing a death metal band.
i am in a TOOL tribute band....we'd play
[Sep 3,2008 9:25pm - BenFo ""]
ouchdrummer said:
benfo said:A problem solver for that could be cover bands. I'm doing a 90's hard rock / grunge / alt metal cover band and its a lot better than marketing a death metal band.
i am in a TOOL tribute band....we'd play
Yea. I think that would be really good for marketing. Rock and metal tribute or cover bands that will draw the not-so-kvlt crowd.
[Sep 4,2008 8:04am - ouchdrummer ""]
it definately could work, although the big thing that will make it REAL hard is what people keep mentioning. Not the licenses, but the startup money. Mainly because if you want a business loan you have to show them your plan to pay it back, and unfortunately in this economy you might not be able to convince a bank that a "Metal" club could pay off. I agree that it could, at least if you took all suggestions into consideration, entertainment, booze, food, but it would be hard.
So heres some more good ideas. Have the food be done by a chef who specializes in making things that are almost 100% whole made and cheap. LIKE ME
I can buy bulk ingrediants and have a menu that uses the same two or three "Focus" items in a bunch of different ways....
AND if you just get a liquor license, you should do what all the smart bars in Germany do, brew your own beer, WHICH I CAN ALSO DO. We could keep a small room for brewing and i could brew enough beer that you would only have to buy the cheap shit to have around that people knew, and we would be known as a specialty bar that brews their own beer. Metal heads would love that. (I would grow our own weed to sell too, but we would have to change countries.... not that i am against that, metal is HUGE in Amsterdam.)