What is the ideal system of government?[views:4868][posts:43]__________________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 12:39pm - Conservationist ""] A topic for curiosity. It's easy enough to know what you don't like, but what would you like to see instead? |
| ___________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 12:43pm - niccolai ""] An anti-monopoly based conservative Capitalist US with a minimalist foreign policy and standard-based, non-fiat currency controlled by the government, not a third party bank. small buisiness would flourish, taxes wouldn't burden the people, our money would stay at competative value, agriculture and engineering ventures would flourish, and lower middle class teenagers wouldn't haveto be killed for the benefit of our un-electable dept. of defense. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 12:45pm - MillenialKingdom ""] Yup. |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 12:46pm - BobNOMAAMRooney ""] A totalitarian state run by the god-king Rich Bova |
| __________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 12:47pm - Martins ""] worldwide communism |
| ___________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 12:48pm - niccolai ""] Me and PJ Orourke would agree on this. Socialism and communism fails EVERY time. The posterboy for socialism is Sweden, and thier system is broken. and look what communism did to europe look at russian and brittish-leland exports around the cold war. containable capitalism, gold-standard money, and minimalist war profiteering are the only way. Pax Romada anyone? |
| _____________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 12:49pm - arilliusbm ""] A ruling slave-state with the Draconian Overlords controlling our planet. |
| ___________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 12:54pm - niccolai ""] P.J. O’Rourke attempts to answer a basic question: What is wealth? How do you get it? Why do some countries prosper and thrive while others remain mired in poverty and despair? Starting with Wall Street, where what he calls “good capitalism” thrives, he journeys to Albania, a land of “bad capitalism” where the free market has collapsed; to Sweden to study “good socialism” to see if it is a “socialist paradise” as many believe, then to Cuba to observe “bad socialism” where Fidel Castro presides over a crumbling economy. Travels to Russia, Tanzania, Hong Kong, and Shanghai show how difficult economic reform can be for countries in financial distress or undergoing political change. Along the way he recounts the plight of the ordinary people he met, in many countries living the barest of existences. O’Rourke reminds us that behind the economic theories are real people struggling to acquire and maintain a decent standard of living, as well as entire countries wrestling with poverty, unstable currencies, and political corruption. The chapter on basic economics, “From Beatnik to Business Major: Taking Econ 101 for Kicks” is a hilarious summary of classic economic theory, but also one of the best common-sense explanations of the basics of wealth and poverty around; it should be required reading for all college business majors. He concludes that in spite of its inherent faults, the surest way out of poverty is the free market. Wealth, he says, is the result of economic liberty, while poverty comes from economic repression. Free market capitalism is not perfect, and at times it is not fair to everyone, but it does work. |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 1:21pm - MillenialKingdom ""] niccolai said:The posterboy for socialism is Sweden, and thier system is broken. According to the International Monetary Fund, Sweden's GDP is ranked 9th in the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita America is 15th. I say their system works. |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 1:37pm - arilliusbm ""] No sense in comparing any two countries. Let's put it bluntly: Human Civilization is on a decline. We've been digging ourselves deeper and deeper into a hole for well over 100 years. With the incorporation of a globalized society, it has affected every single person on this planet (except those indiginous crowds in the rainforests) whether they want to accept it our not. We don't think about what's going to benefit human civilization - we only think about what's going to benefit ourselves. Monetary Systematic practices are a complete failure and we are all slaves to the elite. If we want to save the world, we have to strike a stake into the heart of the elite, and expose the fraud and oligarchy that is destroying the human species everyday. One may call it a dream, but others belive it is attainable. We have to start from scratch and move foward. But sadly, it's never going to happen. Wait till you see what the world will be like 50 years from now. |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 1:40pm - MillenialKingdom ""] I hope the world burns. What happens to people in this life is relative anyway because of free will. People will always place their trust in money and it gets them nowhere. It doesn't prolong death. When you die, the money stays here but you rot in the ground. Yea that's REALLY appealing. So all in all fuck money. |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 2:07pm - corpus_colostomy ""] Postulating ideals is for democrats. |
| _____________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 2:11pm - Sacreligion ""] MillenialKingdom said:I hope the world burns. What happens to people in this life is relative anyway because of free will. People will always place their trust in money and it gets them nowhere. It doesn't prolong death. When you die, the money stays here but you rot in the ground. Yea that's REALLY appealing. So all in all fuck money. I believe the logic is that the money you leave behind helps take care of your family after you're gone. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 2:52pm - Conservationist ""] arilliusbm said:Human Civilization is on a decline. We've been digging ourselves deeper and deeper into a hole for well over 100 years. I think it's longer than that, but the last four hundred have been the worst since our technology has made it easier. Regardless, well said. More detail: http://www.amerika.org/2009/globalism/how-well-move-into-tyranny/ except those indiginous crowds in the rainforests South American rainforest people are not indigenous. we only think about what's going to benefit ourselves. we are all slaves to the elite. There's a causal relationship between those two. Do you agree? |
| _____________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 3:04pm - Sacreligion ""] Conservationist said: except those indiginous crowds in the rainforests South American rainforest people are not indigenous. So where did they come from, the sky? I'm pretty sure that the Maya and Inca were living in South America for quite some time, and those are the people that now comprise the smaller tribes found in the rainforest. |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 3:55pm - goatcatalyst ""] Satanic theocracy means you go in the oven. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 4:33pm - Conservationist ""] Sacreligion said: Conservationist said: except those indiginous crowds in the rainforests South American rainforest people are not indigenous. So where did they come from, the sky? I'm pretty sure that the Maya and Inca were living in South America for quite some time, and those are the people that now comprise the smaller tribes found in the rainforest. Maya, Inca, Aztec: proto-Japanese, possibly Ainu Other Amerinds, Inuit: Siberian proto-Mongolians Pacific Islands people: proto-Chinese |
| __________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 5:22pm - niccolai ""] MillenialKingdom said: niccolai said:The posterboy for socialism is Sweden, and thier system is broken. According to the International Monetary Fund, Sweden's GDP is ranked 9th in the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita America is 15th. I say their system works. Take a look in thier red before they became a democratic monarchy. National debt was hillarious. |
| __________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 5:32pm - niccolai ""] and so wasn't the ethnic clensing, health care system, pre-wed pregnancy rates, sterilization chapter, etc. Not a place I'd consider a model for government. |
| ________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 6:02pm - WATER ""] The ideal system works like this. Watch the pilot episode of the Lone Gunmen on Fox. Steal the idea of crashing planes and bombing buildings. Actually crash planes into buildings. Rally up the white trash. Then invade countries like as if you were playing risk. Then 8 years later rally up the white trash women with promises of a woman leader. Then rally up the black american population with promises of a black leader. Make people identify with race, ethnicity, and gender and promise good representation for each. And for the children, well, make myspaces, facebooks, and other sites where surveys about drug use could be sent around and collect for the american psychological association in attempts to keep guard and tally how much is being ingested and how much will continue to circulate and of course, well, start flagging people. Then make it socially acceptable to turn personal journals into not-so-personal journals and present them to the public. Oh and lets not forget let play with a token society and really get people good. Make things like milk, juice, and even water and gas go up in price, then down in price, then up in price, then down in price. Then allow televangelist to gather up everyones hard earned money to give out mircale mana and miracle water/handkerchiefs and keep that false hope alive for people that know that the system is not in their favor so they can blame it on the supernatural since they just down right dont understand the "Natural". ...and then repeat every 100 hundred years just long enough for peoples grandparents to die off and not remind their grandchildren of what to avoid and how to kill those that need to be avoided. Trust me it works and is fool proof... |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 7:05pm - BobNOMAAMRooney ""] niccolai said: Take a look in thier red before they became a democratic monarchy. National debt was hillarious. and so wasn't the ethnic clensing, health care system, pre-wed pregnancy rates, sterilization chapter, etc. Not a place I'd consider a model for government. Sweden became a Constitutional Monarchy on August 20, 1772 (although the strength of parliament ebbed for a number of decades after that point). I don't see how the Republic that preceded Gustav III's new constitution could have implemented Socialism and had it fail considering that economic theory wouldn't emerge for another 50 some odd years. Sweden has become more prosperous since removing political power from the monarchy in the 1970s and somehow managed to put together a strong economy with the Social Democrats as the dominant political party in Swedish politics, just as they had been before 1974. |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 8:48pm - the_reverend ""] technoracy. |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 8:49pm - the_reverend ""] ^^^ never ever goes wrong ^^^ machines done make msitakes |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 13,2009 9:02pm - BobNOMAAMRooney ""] The actual ideal government is totalitarian mind control state run by you. With a totalitarian mind control state you can make whatever failed ideology you embrace a reality! This is why Sid Meier's Civilization is the best thing ever. |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 14,2009 1:32am - MillenialKingdom ""] I LOVE that game. Civ IV is the shit. |
| ______________________________ [Jun 15,2009 7:36am - Yeti ""] Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 9:58am - landonaspock ""] SHUT UP. SHUT UP. YOU. |
| _____________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 9:59am - Sacreligion ""] I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away! |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 11:33am - Eyehatehippies ""] Compassionate Feudalism |
| __________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 11:42am - reimroc ""] luxembourg |
| ________________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 11:43am - boblovesmusic ""] me |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 12:48pm - JustinSteele ""] Sacreligion said:I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away! Help! Help! I'm being repressed! Now we see the violence inherent in the system! |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 12:49pm - Sacreligion ""] Old woman! MAN! |
| _________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 1:11pm - sxealex ""] Zod. |
| _________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 1:24pm - reimroc ""] yes zod will be our leader. for eternity. |
| ________________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 1:28pm - monster_island ""] [img] |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 1:29pm - Conservationist ""] Eyehatehippies said:Compassionate Feudalism I can get behind that. |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 1:43pm - JustinSteele ""] Can we be honest and say that no government will work because the people who run it/vote in those who run it are the problem? Really, every single option tried so far has been wrought with corruption and greed. Pure capitalism doesn't serve the general public best because corporations won't regulate themselves and pure communism won't work because the people who are supposed to implement the plan never give up power. I don't know what kind of plan will work. Doubtful we could handle anarchy because, again, people aren't all ready to work together without some sort of Big Brother watching them to keep them in line. Perhaps I need to look into the few other options that have been mentioned here but so far it appears the real issue is "us". We can't seem to create a plan where in the majority benefit without sacrificing growth and prosperity. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 2:22pm - Conservationist ""] JustinSteele said:Can we be honest and say that no government will work because the people who run it/vote in those who run it are the problem? While I agree with this, certain types of governments encourage certain types of behaviors. Your response is classic eugenicist (that's not a bad thing, even if The Crowd is terrified by it). People quality and values (culture) are more important than bureaucratic methods. |
| ______________________________ [Jun 15,2009 3:16pm - Yeti ""] LENINISM |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 4:45pm - JustinSteele ""] Conservationist said: JustinSteele said:Can we be honest and say that no government will work because the people who run it/vote in those who run it are the problem? While I agree with this, certain types of governments encourage certain types of behaviors. Your response is classic eugenicist (that's not a bad thing, even if The Crowd is terrified by it). People quality and values (culture) are more important than bureaucratic methods. Oddly enough, I don't believe you and I have ever agreed about anything until now! However, as I get older, I've become more and more disenchanted with Liberalism. Not that I don't "feel" it is the best or that with the appropriate people involved and the right circumstances it could work, but the ideals seem to challenge basic human nature too much to be taken seriously. How we would get around that and somehow teach true altruism in a global culture is beyond me. I look forward to a day when public and private interests can co-exist without having to monitor eachother's every move and benefit the majority in a truly palpable way, but I'm not holding my breath. People are so greedy and value wealth to the most disgusting degree that I highly doubt in my life time I'll see any harmonious synergy between the public and private interest. |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 5:15pm - iamnotkennyg ""] landonaspock said:SHUT UP. SHUT UP. YOU. ...nice suffocation referance. but i might response to this would have to be bova. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 7:51pm - Conservationist ""] Sacreligion said: Conservationist said: except those indiginous crowds in the rainforests South American rainforest people are not indigenous. So where did they come from, the sky? I'm pretty sure that the Maya and Inca were living in South America for quite some time, and those are the people that now comprise the smaller tribes found in the rainforest. Siberia. Therefore, they are not indigenous. Furthermore, it's not clear they were the only group to migrate there. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 15,2009 7:53pm - Conservationist ""] JustinSteele said: Conservationist said: JustinSteele said:Can we be honest and say that no government will work because the people who run it/vote in those who run it are the problem? While I agree with this, certain types of governments encourage certain types of behaviors. Your response is classic eugenicist (that's not a bad thing, even if The Crowd is terrified by it). People quality and values (culture) are more important than bureaucratic methods. Oddly enough, I don't believe you and I have ever agreed about anything until now! However, as I get older, I've become more and more disenchanted with Liberalism. Not that I don't "feel" it is the best or that with the appropriate people involved and the right circumstances it could work, but the ideals seem to challenge basic human nature too much to be taken seriously. How we would get around that and somehow teach true altruism in a global culture is beyond me. I look forward to a day when public and private interests can co-exist without having to monitor eachother's every move and benefit the majority in a truly palpable way, but I'm not holding my breath. People are so greedy and value wealth to the most disgusting degree that I highly doubt in my life time I'll see any harmonious synergy between the public and private interest. I went down a similar path. Eventually, I stopped thinking in human terms and started to figure out why nature designed things the way they are. Much more became clear at that point. I'm still not a rabid capitalist social darwinist, but I'm definitely anti-liberal... it isn't realistic, and non-realistic things cause huge social problems. This isn't to say (apropos of your comments re: "feel") that I don't agree with a lot of liberal causes on aesthetic grounds. Smashing big media, environmental conservation, treating people fairly are good by me but raising herds of parasites is not. |